New insurance rules?

[dozypillock]

The misses got a threatening letter today, telling her she will be fined, if she does not insure her car. Car is MOTed till august and taxed till end of January.
It is NOT on the road, and has not, and would not have been driven on the road unless insured.
I always believed that DRIVING without insurance is an offence, but parking it in garage etc does not need insurance.
Seems the new rules are that it HAS to be insured, even if never driven on the road?
How do I now keep a spare car, in the event we need it, so taxed, MOTed etc but safely off road, so that we can just log in, insure for couple of days etc, then park back up?
If we sorn it, we then have to tax it for just 2 days (a whole month) then sorn it again?
What a stupid new system?
Neil

 

[LTD]

Who sent the letter ?

 

[markjay]

From what I understand, the new legislation stipulates that cars need to be insured even when they are off public roads.

The logic is that you might drive your uninsured Range Rover around your estate and run over the gamekeeper or gardner... or perhaps your rusty old Nova's parking brake will snap and the car will roll down your drive and onto the main road hitting a 16 years old single mother of three. It all depend on where you live...

You could argue that the same risk applies also to SORNed vehicle, but then there is an administrative need to say when a vehicle stops being one, or otherwise we would need to keep each and every car ever made insured in perpetuum.

 

[whitenemesis]

It's not new at all...

Unless a car is SORN it must have valid insurance.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/uninsured-vehicles

 

[dozypillock]

Who sent the letter ?

Came from DVLA....I think.....Implies that you MUST be driving it, therefore it needs insurance. Scared her s**less.
I said NO, you cannot get done for no insurance, unless you take it on the road. Seems that is not true now. They can fine you whether you drive it or not?.....This goes against all I knew for 30 years....
Can they really do this? Be fined for no insurance, when car has not even been on the road? Seems like a lot of people may be paying fines soon.

4. Uninsured vehicles

Rules in England, Wales and Scotland

You must have motor insurance for your vehicle if you use it on roads and in public places.
You do not need to insure your vehicle if it is kept off the road and declared as off the road (SORN). This rule is called ‘continuous insurance enforcement’.
If not, you could:

• get a fixed penalty of £100
• have your vehicle wheel-clamped, impounded or destroyed
• face a court prosecution, with a possible maximum fine of £1,000

It doesn’t matter who is driving the car - if you’re the registered keeper, you could get penalised.

You will also still have to pay for your insurance on top of any fines received.
You can check if your vehicle is insured on askMID.
Motor traders - exceptions

If a vehicle is between registered keepers or registered as ‘in trade’ with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), it is excluded from continuous insurance enforcement.
Vehicles you keep for your own use are not excluded.

Neil

 

[LTD]

Simple - If the vehicle is not declared as a SORN then you need insurance.

 

[dozypillock]

Came from DVLA....I think.....Implies that you MUST be driving it, therefore it needs insurance. Scared her s**less.
I said NO, you cannot get done for no insurance, unless you take it on the road. Seems that is not true now. They can fine you whether you drive it or not?.....This goes against all I knew for 30 years....
Can they really do this? Be fined for no insurance, when car has not even been on the road? Seems like a lot of people may be paying fines soon.

4. Uninsured vehicles

Rules in England, Wales and Scotland

You must have motor insurance for your vehicle if you use it on roads and in public places.
You do not need to insure your vehicle if it is kept off the road and declared as off the road (SORN). This rule is called ‘continuous insurance enforcement’.
If not, you could:

• get a fixed penalty of £100
• have your vehicle wheel-clamped, impounded or destroyed
• face a court prosecution, with a possible maximum fine of £1,000

It doesn’t matter who is driving the car - if you’re the registered keeper, you could get penalised.

You will also still have to pay for your insurance on top of any fines received.
You can check if your vehicle is insured on askMID.
Motor traders - exceptions

If a vehicle is between registered keepers or registered as ‘in trade’ with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), it is excluded from continuous insurance enforcement.
Vehicles you keep for your own use are not excluded.

Neil

Looked on the site, and it is crap. Vehicle is fully taxed, MOTed till next august, but not on road. None of the options on sorn etc seem to apply.
Looks like yet another cockup, and an attempt to extract huge amounts of money from people that just want to use a car sometimes. Will affect day/week insurance companies?. We paid £13 to use it for 2 days in September, fully insured. Happy to pay the tax, so it is there, always ready. Hire cars are more expensive....we can go online(or could, it seems) and drive it 10 minutes later, for emergencies, even at 3 in the morning. That seems to be not allowed now!

Neil

 

[LTD]

Looked on the site, and it is crap. Vehicle is fully taxed, MOTed till next august, but not on road. None of the options on sorn etc seem to apply.

"You do not need to insure your vehicle if it is kept off the road and declared as off the road (SORN)."

Try reading it again - it has to be declared SORN to avoid the requirement to be insured.

 

[renault12ts]

Neil, have you been out of the country for the last three years. get it insured or SORN it.

 

[dozypillock]

Neil, have you been out of the country for the last three years. get it insured or SORN it.

Never had a problem with any of my vehicles before.
If I sorn another one I have, but need to use it tomorrow, as my Merc won,t start, how can I then do that.
Log in to dvla, un sorn it, tax it, insure it (I can, and have often insured the vehicle in question) for the day, or 2 days (£13) all within 10 minutes?
I was not aware of an offence of NOT driving a car without insurance?
How many points will she get?
We have already paid for tax and mot on it, despite it not using the roads for months, as a fall back.
Seems they do not like this, and we may have to either pay the whole wack for a car not used, or ring for a hire car at say 01.15 in the morning (used to insure a car in 10 minutes or less so I can use the spare and go to wherever)
The new system is designed to do what?

Neil

 

[whitenemesis]

SORN it, or insure it.

What price do you put on convenience?

 

[dozypillock]

Who sent the letter ?

The misses woke up for a pee, so asked where the letter is. It is quite a threatening letter, from MIB Motor Insurance Bureau.
Seems you are not allowed to insure a car for a couple of days when needed anymore.
You have to keep it as taxed, mot'd insured etc even if it does not hit the road.
You cannot unsorn, tax, insure a car in a sensible amount of time to make it legal?
Hire cars will be the only option?
Can you ring one of them in the early hours, and get it then in 10 minutes, so you can go to work?
I think not.
Going to have to have a fully insured, taxed, mot'd car just sat there in case I need it, even if it does 2 miles from last mot till the next one.....
Stupid inflexible new system.

Neil

 

[dozypillock]

SORN it, or insure it.

What price do you put on convenience?

Just seems the price of convenience has gone up.
Still probably cheaper, and more convenient if I need the spare at 2-30am than hire cars.
If it was sorned, then needed for a few days, how easily does the system allow me to unsorn it, use it for few days, sorn again etc etc....
Seems like either a car is fully offroad for ever, or you have to pay for tax insurance etc, that you may never use. why? to fill the governments pockets?
It will certainly change how much they get from me, and it will be less.
One spare vehicle, fully legal, but used more often. Cheaper tax, insurance, and petrol than the merc.
The merc may end up being sorned every winter for 6 months (shame) but less money for them, so they lose out anyway with their stupid new system. Sad I will not be able to take it out on a nice sunny day, at short notice, as the system no doubt does not permit that?
As an example. I have a sorned vehicle here. If I wanted to drive it in 6 hours time, how could I do that? Assuming it was mot,d but no tax as sorned.

Neil

Neil

 

[def90cars]

Di you pick you user name based on history?

Just needs SORN.

Can re-tax 365 days a year online.

I have 4 cars and spend 45 weeks a year out of the country.

No sympathy. Cars are a privilege and not a right. Need to follow the rules. I honestly believe the changes are lining the police up to seize all illegal cars easier. Got to be a good thing.

Sorry.

 

[dozypillock]

Di you pick you user name based on history?

Just needs SORN.

Can re-tax 365 days a year online.

I have 4 cars and spend 45 weeks a year out of the country.

No sympathy. Cars are a privilege and not a right. Need to follow the rules. I honestly believe the changes are lining the police up to seize all illegal cars easier. Got to be a good thing.

Sorry.

Just saying. I have never had a problem before. Most vehicles kept mot'd and taxed so can be used when needed, ie maybe just a weekend show etc. Then just logged in, and insured for the day/weekend.
Taxed only because you could not easily tax a car for 2 days.

I may try, later on this morning, to unsorn one of them, tax it, insure it for the day, then re-sorn it, un tax it etc this evening. I wonder whether I can even do that.
I bet it throws the computers into one hell of a mess.
I would bet I cannot tax it if only unsorn 2 minutes earlier. I suspect insuring it will be no problem, but bet I cannot sorn it again a few hours later, then untax it again. If I set the tax on monthly payments, but set the payment in 3 days time, then cancel tax this evening, do you think I will still be taxed for the whole month?
What if I have paid for the whole month, but then decide to take it somewhere next weekend? If I then follow the process again, will I be charged twice for the same months tax, even though it would be sorned again?

Never had this problem before.
The vehicle that caused the letter was not used for months, then used for a weekend, to help somebody move lots of big stuff (it is the only estate we have) then put away again.
The misses sold it yesterday as does not want this hassle, although no doubt there will be more problems, as the person who bought the bargain for £200 with new disks, pads all round 2 weeks ago and mot,d for another 8 months paid cash, and drove it away. The misses was panicking and just wanted it gone, as she feared the police may come round etc, and she might get a criminal record. She has never had any involvement with them in her nearly 60 years on this planet.Never been stopped, never caught speeding etc (me however, is different, having had numerous run ins, all involved with driving)
In theory, he had no tax, so could not get insurance?
Time, methinks, to declare all unused but taxed vehicles sorned, and get my money back, then clear garage, and just stick with 3 fully paid up vehicles, 1 for emergencies.
Will be cheaper in long run, and government will get a lot less money.

Neil

 

[st13phil]

Did you pick you user name based on history?

Ha ha

In defence of the OP, he's not alone in not knowing about this. According to this FOI request / response, the number of fixed penalties issued and value of fines collected is:

Period Fixed Penalty Notices Fines Collected (£k)
Jul 2011 – Mar-12 120,779 £1,563
April 2012 – Mar-13 179,057 £2,879
April 2013 – Mar-14 212,710 £4,151
April 2014 – 22-Oct-14 115,533 £2,630

Which by any normal measure would suggest that a) A substantial number of people are falling foul of the regulation, and b) It's a nice little earner for the DVLA.

I honestly believe the changes are lining the police up to seize all illegal cars easier. Got to be a good thing.

The reality is that the UK Insurance Industry campaigned for mandatory continuous insurance of motor vehicles for years. Not because it makes it easier to enforce the law against uninsured drivers, but because it increases their revenues.

If the primary purpose of this legislation was to deal with the problem of uninsured drivers, then there are much simpler ways. For example, many other countries insure the vehicle rather than the specific driver which means that as long as the vehicle is insured, it can be driven by anyone. But our insurance industry doesn't like this approach and continues to resist such an obvious improvement. I wonder why

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Are you saying that your Mrs received a letter yesterday and, as a result, sold the car on the same day?

 

[ras8963]

Personally, I would do nothing unless I planned to take it on the road......I have yet to hear of a penalty actually being incurred in this situation..........take it out no the road however .......

ATB

 

[219]

You can certainly apply for VED ( road tax ) online , but only as long as it has not been SORN'd earlier that same month - otherwise you have to do it at the Post Office . Also , you have to pay for six months duty , then reclaim each complete month that is unused when you SORN again .

Of course , if you have a pre 73 car that is tax exempt there is no cost involved and pre 1960 does not need to be MOT'd . On such cars a classic car policy costing maybe £100 per year is all you need to keep it road legal and available . Perhaps something like this would best suit your needs ?

I keep my 190E insured all year round on a classic policy ( I think it was £127 last year ) , used it for six months over the summer . It is now sitting up the drive on SORN , but has current MOT , so I could tax it online right now if need be , use it for a few days then declare SORN and reclaim 5 months unused tax .

You would be paying more to keep your car taxed all the time than you would for continuous insurance , I'd guess .

Anyway , both insurance and tax can be done online ( only once within a given month ) so not an impossibility .

 

[st13phil]

Personally, I would do nothing unless I planned to take it on the road

Bad advice. The DVLA routinely issue penalty notices simply based on the fact that there is no insurance policy recorded on the MID.