Off to the Dark Side

[Smatt]

Great review, thanks.
-very thorough & insightful.
I would suggest you copy & paste onto a BM forum in case the powers that be are looking, if you have not already done so.

We really love our pre-facelift e classes S212/A207, but have not the experience of the W211 to compare against. I must say I do not like as much the post facelift looks on the latest Es, except maybe the coupe.
I have often found myself wondering why members hang on buying old models rather than purchasing updated models, but I certainly understand now & would with my estate as there are a number of changes on the facelift which I feel make it a lesser car, such as:
- no 7 seat option with 350 cdi or 300H
- halogen lights standard- no bixenon or swivel-ly headlights
- looks

We were tempted by the BMW 4 series convertible, but then found an irrestible stunning designo E class cab which we could not ignore.
-So, this car was bought mainly on looks!

I bought my S212 mainly because it is the only seven seater estate & I liked the looks too. The fact that it was also an MB & a fabulous car with loads of goodies was a bonus. It is easily the comfiest car I have driven in terms of seat comfort + ride(with Airmatic).
I did look at BMs when buying the estate & BM had nothing comparable- the 4 & 6 series middle seat was a joke with literally no leg room- the middle console extended right upto the rear seat. The salesman said that if you want a proper 5 seat BM saloon, then you have to get a 7 series, which is preposterous! Can you imagine a family of 5 wanting to buy a MB saloon being told that they have to buy an S class?

 

[Dryce]

My decision as to what to do when my lease agreement was up was in some ways settled in September last year on a trip to the north of Scotland while cutting across the A9 and bypassing Perth and Pitlochry by heading to Crieff and Aberfeldy and then rejoining the A9 near Trinafour.

The 6GC felt clumsy to the extent that I was beginning to think it had developed a problem - and then once back on the A9 it returned to normal. On the A93 a few days later it was also its normal self.

The issue I think is the variable steering feedback combined with the lack of feel from the front. The actual dynamics of the car are fine. But when the speed varies between 50 and 60 on the 'wrong' type of road surface then the servotronic steering system plays mindgames as it varies the steering feedback. Pushing harder might solve the problem but it would also mean exceeding the NSL.

The net result is that I found I no longer looked forward to using it on longer open road journeys. I could never be sure in advance how it would feel on the road. It might be fine or it might not depending on the road and conditions.

My thoughts on the 6GC are not much changed from my earlier comments. However I would add some additional details.

1) I have no urge for a M5 or anything that is faster on paper. The usable performance of the 3.0 turbo-diesel and 8 speed ZF is more than enough. The key here is 'usable'. I have used the term 'teleport' to describe the car's acceleration agility. It's easy to catch other drivers unaware and I had to learn to be careful.

2) The satnav voice command system is imperfect but more useful than I ever expected - though you need to think round its limitations when pronouncing place names (Oban has to be pronounced with so that it is similar to knob-ann).

3) The satnav isn't that good in practice - it makes poor decisions on using the 10" screen real estate and is quick to hide minor roads or choose the wrong streets to name when used as a moving map. The real time traffic updates were on the whole fairly useless on the routes I was driving. My view is that north of central Scotland it made poor route decisions on minor roads - and in one case tried to send me down a track taht would challenge a 4x4.

4) The boot is reasonably large but the aperture is limited - larger cases were a bit of a squeeze - and a small lawnmower (30cm Flymo) bought at B&Q failed to fit in its packaging.

5) I pretty much stopped using the cruise control. The control setup is inferior to the MB stalk.

6) The dash layout isn't bad but having the rev counter with equal prominence to the speedo is a waste. The rev counter turned out to be totally irrelevant because the drivetrain does its job so well. The small time display was often obscured down at the bottom of the display.

7) The climate control isn't bad but just never seemed as unobtrusive as my previous MB.

8) The rain sensor / intermittent wipe never really quite worked satisfactorily.

9) The seats were comfortable. However I think that after about 18 months (15000 miles) the driver seat started to wear. The passenger seat on the other side just felt better.

10) While the grip in non-winter conditions of my Dunlop Wintersport 3D tyres was lower than the supplied Dunlopp Maxx GT tyres in some ways I prefered the Wintersports because at the back they gave way gently whereas I never felt the Maxx GTs gave much feedback as to their (higher) limits.

11) My feeling is that it's easy to inadvertently antagonise other drivers in a large BMW compared with a MB. There were a few occasions where I felt that I was being deliberately (procvocatively so on a couple of occasions) blocked on queue merging. My feeling is that there are more hatches wanting to 'joust' try and out-drag from lights.

12) Despite choosing a deliberately unglamourous colour and basic alloys the 6GC got more attention than any other car I've had. Often from teenagers. On a couple of occasions I was approached in carparks by people who looked distinctly dodgy wanting to know about it I think this was in part because in the first 18 months I had the car 6GCs were quite rare - there are more about more.

13) Servicing? Listen up MB! £290 in 2 and a half years.

14) Two visits to the dealer over minor warranty issues. One was resolved. The other was a AC failure that they wouldn't look at until I agreed to cough for a regas.

15) The main dealer experience ..... I miss my indy. The front desk staff were cheerful and polite. The AC problem wasn't resolved. Best part of two weeks to get an appointment. Very slow to answer the phone. And if my AC problem had re-occured I'd have had to make an appointment rather than just pop by because when I asked if I could do this they said the workshop couldn't look at the car unless a new job and associated paperwork were first raised by the front office - so I'd need an appointment. So despite the gloss of the service experience the actual level of underlying service felt lower than I was used to with an indy.

16) The cost of the AC regas wasn't high - but in principle a car less than 2 years old shouldn't lose its gas. It kind of felt cheap of them to charge me up front before determining that it wasn't due to damage - and as they didn't find any other cause I didn't get refunded. So I'm disproportionately irked by it. Undermines the customer experience.

17) I would comment on the actual usefulness of the performance. A 5.5s zero to 60 and proportionately quick 30-70 time looks great on paper. And the drivetrain easily delivers it on demand. But the reality is that my point to point journey times were not anything other than very marginally better than an E240 slug. The reason for this is that when you encounter say a E220 that is making decent progress it's difficult to overtake without breaching the NSL on an A road. In principle the likes of an E350 or 640d can accelerate out of a bend and take the E220 quite easily. In practice if the E220 is being pushed and you're travelling a safe distance behind then it reaches 60 before you can get past. On a high proportion of occasions the powertrain is of no net benefit unless you are willing to speed. On several occasions I would make decent rogress and reach the end of a queue of maybe 10 or 15 cars trailing a 40mph truck. None of those cars would be making any attempt to overtake even when there were ideal opportunities. The 640d can easily advance up such a train of vehicles - but needs gaps to pull in safely. Modern traffic etiquette seems to preclude allowing such gaps. As a result making practical use of the performance advantages of the powertrain limited. And this is really quite poignant given how well the drivetrain can deliver.

18) 6-cylnder diesels are way way nicer than 4-cylinder diesels when not cruising on a DC or motorway. However anybody thinking that a 6-cylinder diesel is refined compared with a 6 cylinder petrol engine is kidding themselves.


So ....

Having had time to think my pragmatic solution to deciding whether to keep it or return it was set a price in my mind that reflected its value to me compared with alternatives. I asked BMW for a price to keep the car. I didn't expect them to match my value - but if they did then I'd seriously consider keeping it. They came back with a very fair offer - but it was still quite a bit higher than the value of the 6GC to me.

So after two and a half years it's time to part.

If I was to sum up the experience - I would say that the 6GC is a decent car in many ways but a bit joyless at times. In truth once I experienced its flaws a few times I never really looked forward to driving it cross country as much as some of my previous cars - and when switching back to it after using various hire cars its irritations would be re-emphasised. It had its good days and bad days. Given its cost I have been less tolerant of those flaws and resulting bad days than had it been a cheaper car.

 

[gIzzE]

Good write up, and backs up my hatred for these stupid and sometimes dangerous non linear steering sets ups modern cars have.
It was the paramater steering on my E350 that was the nail in the coffin for it for me.
Every review I have read for the new A4 has slated their version of the adaptive steering and says it ruins the car, same with the 3 series reviews when it came out.


I through my Garmin out of the window in a blind rage when I was trying to get from Kenmore up to Avimore, rather than take me 5 miles south to join the A9 it took me down what can best be descibed as a green lane, what should have been a 45 minute journey turned into 3 hours of hell, had to herd some sheep off the road at one point.
I even took a photo to send to Garmin with my car sitting on a single track and the A9 some 50m to my right on the nav screen!!

I lost the plot and threw it out the window, then regretted it big time on the way home to Norfolk when what normally takes 8-9 hours took us close to 15 hours due to traffic and accidents (that the nav would have probably told me about).

So think most Nav set ups struggle with Scotland, that single track may be a 60mph limit, but in reality average above 20mph and you're doing well.


The problem for me is new cars in general, they are all a bit souless, and a lot of the time it is not until I try other things or sell it that I think "Actually, it wasn't too bad."

 

[Dryce]

The problem for me is new cars in general, they are all a bit souless, and a lot of the time it is not until I try other things or sell it that I think "Actually, it wasn't too bad."

I use a car two ways.

(1) commuting/work - it must be a refined smooth haven.

(2) long journeys in great scenery - it must be a pleasure to drive.

The 6GC never quite managed to fulfil either though to be fair I had stopped being irked by it as regards (1).

 

[C240Sport97]

replace GC with CLS

 

[The _Don]

Good write up, and backs up my hatred for these stupid and sometimes dangerous non linear steering sets ups modern cars have. It was the paramater steering on my E350 that was the nail in the coffin for it for me. Every review I have read for the new A4 has slated their version of the adaptive steering and says it ruins the car, same with the 3 series reviews when it came out. I through my Garmin out of the window in a blind rage when I was trying to get from Kenmore up to Avimore, rather than take me 5 miles south to join the A9 it took me down what can best be descibed as a green lane, what should have been a 45 minute journey turned into 3 hours of hell, had to herd some sheep off the road at one point. I even took a photo to send to Garmin with my car sitting on a single track and the A9 some 50m to my right on the nav screen!! I lost the plot and threw it out the window, then regretted it big time on the way home to Norfolk when what normally takes 8-9 hours took us close to 15 hours due to traffic and accidents (that the nav would have probably told me about). So think most Nav set ups struggle with Scotland, that single track may be a 60mph limit, but in reality average above 20mph and you're doing well. The problem for me is new cars in general, they are all a bit souless, and a lot of the time it is not until I try other things or sell it that I think "Actually, it wasn't too bad."

Use google maps as a navigator it is superb.

 

[Dryce]

Use google maps as a navigator it is superb.

The killer with Google maps is that they want you to run with a decent data connection unless you mess about tiles or deal with additional third party sertups.

Where I go data connections are often either too slow or non-existent.

And the routes Google choose? Well they don't send me down the 4x4 track that my in-car satnav would have me use and their maps are more up to date than the in car setup. But thereafter they don't seem to always choose what I would think of as the optimal routes on the journeys I know.

So just as troublesome in their own way as the BMW setup.

 

[regbuser]

could you change your tag? A 640 is never a 219 or 218, thanks

 

[st13phil]

I use a car two ways.

(1) commuting/work - it must be a refined smooth haven.

(2) long journeys in great scenery - it must be a pleasure to drive.

Sounds like you need an E63 or a CLS63...

Valid point you made about usable performance though. It's very rare that the full performance of the E63 is usable, but when it is, it's laugh out loud fun. When it isn't, you're sat in a lovely refined luxury car which makes the ownership experience quite different to most other cars. It does come at a price though

 

[Dryce]

could you change your tag? A 640 is never a 219 or 218, thanks

Please don't confuse it in any way with a 218. It has feelings you know.

It's officially an honorary 219a and has been so for the last 2 and a bit years - and will be so for another couple of weeks at which point it will revert to being an ordinary F06.

 

[Dryce]

Two gentlemen arrived last week and one inspected the car and the other drove it away.

Alas my defection continues - as I had started looking at replacement options back in July and went through a list that covered BMW 7, X5, X3, X1; Ford Kuga; Volvo XC60; Jeep Renegade, Cherokee; MB ML, E (, and the GLC was tentatively thown into the mix); Audi Q5; Suzuki SX4; Mitibushi L200, PHEV; Toyota Hi-lux; Kia Sportage; Hyundai ix35; VW Tiguan, Touareg.

My backstop if I couldn't find anything was just to go for a lease C or E.

The BMW 7 is being replaced and there were some crazy lease deals - so even though most of the list is SUV style vehicles it was seriously under consideration until SWMBO put her foot down (too big ..... oh the irony given where I've ended up).

I had a long think about the X5 and ML but both were expensive and only offering a 4-pot lump up front in my price bracket.

The X3 was in some ways the ideal size (or a GLC if we were waiting) but sadly after sitting in a 6 the X3 feels a bit down market. Not really the X3's fault - but the design cues are so similar but the 6er felt nicer. X3s were also relatively expensive and not many available used.

The oddballs were the other SUVs. I never tested the Kia, Jeep, or Hyuandai products. Nothing intrinsically wrong with them - but they felt like they were made for somebody else when I looked them over in the showroom.

I actually liked the Kuga as a package - but I couldn't get a test drive in an auto without going to some trouble. And to buy one new or used with an automatic transmission was relatively expensive.

The XC60 and Tiguan looked most sensible but along the way I discovered the Touareg. Thing is a 'basic' Touareg came pretty much fully loaded and with an automatic transmission.

Along the way I tried an E220 and to be honest it was very very appealling despite the cheap square clock and stick on tablet. But by that time I had figured I prefered idea of the higher SUV over the long term.

So final target eventually became a Touareg.

Trying to work out the pros and cons of the purchasing options was confused by variations in spec. All the good lease deals at the time were on the 262ps Escape version - which has extra 4WD capability - the extra spec confuses the decision making a bit when trying to compare options. There were good deals on pre-reg R-Line models with the 262ps engine - but really after the 640 I reckon that I don't need the extra power - I didn't like the R-line wheels - though I was very tempted by the sunroof.

Went for a used Touareg over the other options: lease new, buy new discount, buy pre-reg. The spreadsheet I was working with basically produced numbers suggested leasing if owning for less than 3 years and buying used if owning for 5 years. So I ended up with one of the last pre-facelift 204PS SE versions - one of the odd attractions of this over the current version was the inclusion of an actual space saver spare wheel rather than a mobility kit.