petrol-hybrid or plugin or

[R129mine]

I hope to have some money saved next year to buy something I can use as a daily drive to the station and back (20 mile round trip) once WFH season finishes

I currently drive an old Picasso and my lovely r129 but really need to get rid of the Picasso as it is a diesel and I hate it.

I have had a brief look at some nice C and E class cars like this one for instance. Ideally I would get a GLe but they are still £30k or higher and my sweet spot in terms of pricing is £13-16k (and these cars are only ever going to depreciate down further so don't want to spend more money on it)

It would be a complete change for me as I have never bought a car that was younger than 10 years and wanted to wait a bit longer for an older electric car but having had to drive to London a few times in recent months it made me realise that driving a 15 yr old Diesel car in cities is a crime against humanity.

What is the reliability like of these plugin hybrids, models to avoid? I think my preference would be for a Hybrid – Petrol/Electric Plug-in as the vast majority of my journeys are less than 20-25 miles and would be perfect for a plugin hybrid.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Be aware that MBs warranty on the hybrid batteries is effectively worthless and they provide no goodwill, especially for cars with frequent short trips which they can identify

 

[R129mine]

Be aware that MBs warranty on the hybrid batteries is effectively worthless and they provide no goodwill, especially for cars with frequent short trips which they can identify

Good to know

found this so it seems warranty up to 60k miles

http://tools.mercedes-benz.co.uk/current/passenger-cars/pdfs/owners-area/HV-Battery-Warranty.pdf

Just found some lovely horror stories

Perhaps I was no wrong earlier this year when my thoughts were to leave it for a few more years till it becomes more mainstream and quality improves

hmmm, shame though as the idea is nice

 

[Deleted member 149005]

I’d wait a while until you know you won’t be wfh....

 

[ChipChop]

Classic car 40+ years old is the way to go. Classic insurance, MOT exempt, ULEZ exempt and of course tax exempt. Depreciation what is that? May however cost a bit more to maintain.

Maybe a nice 1979 or earlier R 107 v8 to sit alongside your R 129?

 

[Smiley]

If your journeys are that short why not an all electric car? They are an option if you have access to another car. Much less maintenance than a hybrid.

 

[zipdip]

Well I was tempted a couple of years ago to buy a mercedes E car,but meeting a company owner that had three as company cars changed my mind he said all three were complete dogs,and it looks like lots of other people and the trade have come to that conclusion as well,a 2017 car for 16 grand,says it all,the trade have spoken.

 

[glojo]

If your journeys are that short why not an all electric car? They are an option if you have access to another car. Much less maintenance than a hybrid.

Are folks here making a mountain out of not even a mole mound?

The warranty is for 60k miles or six years. Is there a similar warranty for a bog-standard Mercedes-Benz diesel engine or even the automatic gearbox?

The poster of this thread has posted an example of vehicle they might consider and asked for our opinion.

Hopefully they can take the good with the bad? First off, the pictures looks very, very nice. A well-specced car with full leather interior. Now the other side of the coin. 90,000 miles in three years. Not bad in its self providing it has a record of a full-service history. The warranty for the battery only covers 60k miles so that trumps the six year factor

I am lucky and our 2004 car is still covered by the excellent Mobilo warranty and that is because I have had the vehicle serviced by the main dealer, does this vehicle comply (I have no idea)

I say 2017 is a good year to buy a nice looking E-class purely because that was before Mercedes Benz UK went on a culling spree regarding their options. If this car was an early 2020 demonstrator then no leather interior and of course a higher price than is probably in your budget.

Your example is nice but check the paperwork. Clearly Mercedes-Benz are happy to offer a six-year warranty for a 'normal' mileage car and that six years means they are happy with the reliability of that hybrid battery. I would be very tempted to buy that car providing the service history was complete.

 

[Tonygw]

As much as I love my Merc diesel, for Hybrid choice, Toyota / Lexus are the only brand(s) I would consider. They have been selling the Prius for over 20 years now so know what they are doing. Everybody else is playing catch up.

Plus their quality seems to stand out above the rest. For a 20 mile round trip you would definitely need a plug in hybrid. The self charging types will do 4-5 miles only on battery. If you choose carefully you could do all your commuting on electric with a plug in hybrid. Providing you don't mind charging the car EVERY night, including these dark cold, windy, rainy winter days which are ahead of us.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I bought a C350e at the end of 2016. Still have it, still quite enjoy driving it on the rare occasions I leave the house. The mention of cold dark winter nights brings to mind one of the reqlly nice features the 350e offers, pre-entry climate control. Can’t beat getting into a toasty warm, clear screened car on a frosty morning. Can’t do that in a Prius. Plugging it in isn’t a chore if you have the charging organised. I have a wall mounted charger and it takes seconds to plug in (and un-plug).

All that said, I wish I’d waited and bought a Tesla 3 instead of the MB.

 

[Smiley]

As much as I love my Merc diesel, for Hybrid choice, Toyota / Lexus are the only brand(s) I would consider. They have been selling the Prius for over 20 years now so know what they are doing. Everybody else is playing catch up.

This has been exactly my thought....good to know I am not alone. I would not buy any hybrid - it is either adding an electric power train to a petrol/diesel car or its adding an ICE power train to an electric car; when on electric it's dragging the dormant ICE powerplant along and then vice versa - so hardly surprising that the manufacturer claimed fuel consumption figures are not met in "real world" use cases. There is the further complexity of the management of the two power trains which will lead to lower future desirability and high depreciation. The only reason I think they are being "pushed" is because the sales help the manufacturers to meet their overall emissions reduction targets.

 

[R129mine]

Thanks for all the responses. Much food for thought and although a r107 sounds tempting I am looking for something that does not require the regular upkeep you get with an older car and don’t mind driving in all weathers. Would hate to ruin the undercarriage with salt in the winter.

 

[glojo]

Sorry I cannot help but I want to monitor any replies as I have just ordered an E-class petrol hybrid estate.

Good luck with your decision

John

 

[unimog]

That car you posted I would be more than 50/50 sure that its been a Heathrow Taxi... very popular with Luxury driver companies.

Have a read of the C350 owners thread, and look through the multitude of posts on 212 and 213 diesel hybrid issues. Petrol or diesel, they are the same electric plant and the reliability is woeful. As Greenman says, Mercedes won't touch cars out of warranty with battery problems, which are abundant.

If you want a hybrid, Toyota or Lexus, or if on a bigger budget a Hyundai.

A full Electric Zoe, even though its small would be ideal for train station and supermarket trips (its what they are built for). They have strong residuals, and dont have nearly as many reported faults as Mercedes Hybrids. Downside is build quality. But new they are only 17k so you get what you pay for.

 

[R129mine]

I like the look of Mercedes cars and am not a big fan of Prius and Zoe (RRP more like £28k btw) It is completely irrational but that is just the way it is for me. Just picked up some parts at MB Milton Keynes this afternoon and the EQC is a very good looking car, also very much outside of my budget.

Saw this which article today, it talks about fully electrical cars it seems and how often owners have to replace batteries (12% in luxury car segment, and 3% for non luxury vehicles) so it is not rife.

COP26: Should you be worried about diminishing electric car battery life? - Which? News

Our annual survey of thousands of vehicle owners reveals the truth about the longevity of EV batteries

www.which.co.uk

Decisions decisions decisions, like my dad once told me the planning and research is half of the fun part of owning a car (or house or ...)

 

[unimog]

Just some general notes and observations Hybrid tech and Batteries in general.

Most modern battery packs don't fail or degrade that quickly. I work on a Hybrid Propulsion plant and we have seen consistent battery failures at around 12-15% failure rate also over the last 8-10 years, but we have a lot (10's of thousands), and its a mix of problems from chargers damaging cells to poor thermal management and manufacturing defects. Its a bit of work involved and downtime even though we can swap out individual cells. A single cell or even multiple cells could fail in your Merc Hybrid battery and you will only notice the difference under heavy load or extremes of temperature, and the pack is designed to operate safely like that. It therefore wont affect 99% of owners, only the extreme pedants.

Personally I prefer working on 11KV AC power systems over 700vDC, Battery and DC inverter tech is still very brown trouser inducing even with adequate safety measures and training, which is part of the current service issues for those using HV systems. Toyota use a 211v cell that has a maximum current of 130 amps, I think the Merc ones are 350+ amps.

Mercedes have few technicians HV certified which was the problem with early 212 hybrid vehicles. I believe its still the case. The battery modules that Mercedes replaced early on where a game of diagnostic darts, nobody on the forums I read has reported reduction in range even at big mileages, it was just errors like over voltage, internal malfunction, short circuit or charge error. It seems most faults are related to the heavily modified 7and 9g transmissions, which have a wet clutch to decouple the engine and the hybrid motor mounted on the end of the transmission. Its this arrangement, and the HV sensors to go with it that seem to cause most problems.

The 7 and 9G transmissions are great but have always been expensive to put right if they had gremlins and the Hybrid plant is another complication. The EQ boost system coming in the new S and C class cars will couple the 25-30 mile range with an Integrated starter generator removing that layer of complexity from the transmissions. Its no different to buying any relatively new product. Caveat Emptor, and buy the best around.

 

[glojo]

I like the look of Mercedes cars and am not a big fan of Prius and Zoe (RRP more like £28k btw) It is completely irrational but that is just the way it is for me. Just picked up some parts at MB Milton Keynes this afternoon and the EQC is a very good looking car, also very much outside of my budget.

Saw this which article today, it talks about fully electrical cars it seems and how often owners have to replace batteries (12% in luxury car segment, and 3% for non luxury vehicles) so it is not rife.

COP26: Should you be worried about diminishing electric car battery life? - Which? News

Our annual survey of thousands of vehicle owners reveals the truth about the longevity of EV batteries

www.which.co.uk

Decisions decisions decisions, like my dad once told me the planning and research is half of the fun part of owning a car (or house or ...)

The link you posted had the following sentence

academic researchers are bringing us ever closer to the goal of cheap batteries with ultra-low recharging times.

If we were to buy an all-electric car today and 18 months later, cars were produced with those cheaper, maybe greater range and quicker recharging times, then who would want to buy the car with the older battery?

Apologies for asking a question that is way off-topic.

 

[R129mine]

The link you posted had the following sentence

academic researchers are bringing us ever closer to the goal of cheap batteries with ultra-low recharging times.

If we were to buy an all-electric car today and 18 months later, cars were produced with those cheaper, maybe greater range and quicker recharging times, then who would want to buy the car with the older battery?

Apologies for asking a question that is way off-topic.

I guess that would be reflected in the price of the car when you try to sell it or you drive it till it has no residual value left but it is an interesting point. But at some point you have to bite the bullet and buy something. If you wait for the perfect car you may never buy one.

 

[glojo]

I guess that would be reflected in the price of the car when you try to sell it or you drive it till it has no residual value left but it is an interesting point. But at some point you have to bite the bullet and buy something. If you wait for the perfect car you may never buy one.

Well said R129 and we tend to do EXACTLY what you are suggesting. We purchased a new vehicle in 2004, specified it to our perfect vehicle and now in 2020 we are looking to replace it (tis only just run-in at 60k miles)

I looked at the all-electric option but when I heard on our local radio an owner of an all-electric Audi saying how he travelled from Yorkshire to Devon, a journey that usually took him six hours, but with his electric car it took him over eight hours! Nope, not for me.

 

[unimog]

The link you posted had the following sentence

academic researchers are bringing us ever closer to the goal of cheap batteries with ultra-low recharging times.

If we were to buy an all-electric car today and 18 months later, cars were produced with those cheaper, maybe greater range and quicker recharging times, then who would want to buy the car with the older battery?

Apologies for asking a question that is way off-topic.

This why Tesla and Tesla Financial services buy a lot of their own cars back, to artificially inflate the residuals. Its also why he keeps banging on about robo taxis, its just another way of keeping the product from depreciating too heavily until the technology moves on. If you consider the first Tesla Roadster was unsupported a few years ago (it was only made between 2008-2012) and parts are no longer made for it it doesn't bode well for the 'electric future'.