Reaction Times

[flango]

I dont know if this counts as a test for reaction time. I was just stuffing my face with a doughnut holding it with two hands. As i bit into it a big lump of sugar dropped off it. I caught it before it hit the ground. That means i had to lower my hand from the same hight as the sugar fell from and get under it. Also i wasnt expecting it so i would say that was a fair test. Couldnt do it again for a bit i just ate three of them, I cant move.

Is that a bit like the Yorkshireman who dropped his wallet, bent down to pick it up and it hit him on the back of the neck?

 

[ringway]

Is that a bit like the Yorkshireman who dropped his wallet, bent down to pick it up and it hit him on the back of the neck?

How is your neck now Ian?

 

[flango]

How is your neck now Ian?

OK thanks,Fortunately my wallet is permanently empty these days with a 16 year old just had her prom night this week and SWMBO wanting a new car, so it didn't hurt that much

 

[Meldrew2]

Swerving or braking would not be a good response answer .

Braking should always be a safe course of action. If you are driving in a manner that braking would be unsafe, then there is something already very wrong.

My immediate and instinctive reflex reaction would be to brake, firmly. Lose as much speed as possible. In 99% of incidents this will be the right course of action (the main exception being while crossing railway lines or live runways if driving airside).

A firmer grip of the steering wheel should also be instinctive.

Then it's time to consider a change of direction, is it necessary, is it safe to do so. The first reaction of braking will have already given a few more valuable milliseconds for this.

Even if an impact occurs, the braking has reduced speed, so potential injury is reduced. If a child runs across the road in say a 50mph limit, if I can halve my speed by the point of impact, given a modern car with a "pedestrian friendly" bonnet, a life could well be saved.

If I can stop completely, that's perfect. Otherwise, the reflex action of braking has reduced speed, so it is now more likely to be possible to take evasive steering action, or at the very least an impact at slower speed is likely to cause much less injury.

 

[ringway]

OK thanks,Fortunately my wallet is permanently empty these days with a 16 year old just had her prom night this week and SWMBO wanting a new car, so it didn't hurt that much

Tell me about it...

 

[flango]

Braking should always be a safe course of action. If you are driving in a manner that braking would be unsafe, then there is something already very wrong.

I totally agree you should ALWAYS have a safe braking zone in front of you for the speed you are travelling.

 

[glojo]

Braking should always be a safe course of action. If you are driving in a manner that braking would be unsafe, then there is something already very wrong.

Ouch........

I would respectfully suggest you also go stand in that naughty boys corner

My old sergeant would be turning in his grave reading these comments

 

[Meldrew2]

Ouch........

I would respectfully suggest you also go stand in that naughty boys corner

My old sergeant would be turning in his grave reading these comments

OK..... I'm willing to learn. Please tell me when braking would be completely the wrong thing to do.

I can think of

1. While crossing railway lines
2. At a crossroads
3. In a terrorist ambush

So, please tell me what your old Sarge told you.....

 

[glojo]

OK..... I'm willing to learn. Please tell me when braking would be completely the wrong thing to do.

I can think of

1. While crossing railway lines
2. At a crossroads
3. In a terrorist ambush

So, please tell me what your old Sarge told you.....

You have to remember that yo said braking should ALWAYS.....


The worse thing we can sometimes do when travelling on a slippery surface is perhaps brake, by slippery surface I would add black ice, aquaplaning, spilt fuel.. the list can be endless as can each situation, or hazard.

Braking on a bend might not be the best course of action and I would very respectfully suggest that each and every single incident must be evaluatedbefore passing judgement on what is the right course of action.

It is easy to be an armchair critic and pretend this world is black and white... It is not and never will be. It could be that accelerating MIGHT be an option, it could be that doing nothing might be the best option, remember when I gave the example of laying a bike over whilst negotiating a bend and riding over a wet man-hole cover...

This location has seen several fatal accidents and it was highly likely the riders were reacting to the bike sliding, they may have reacted by steering into the slide, braking, or any other permutation, but the right thing to do was......................... NOTHING.

Remember I criticisedyou for saying

Braking should always be a safe course of action.

It might be a safe course of action, but it is plain wrong to suggest it should ALWAYS be a safe course of action.

 

[Meldrew2]

Thanks, glojo, for taking the time to explain.

As a car driver, cossetted by ABS, ABD, ESP, (and probably BBC, ITV and PMT), I was not considering scenarios that are much more hazardous to a bike. Certainly a slippery surface poses its own hazard, and even more so to those on 2 wheels where balance is crucial.

I'm not going to take a bend at a speed that would prevent me stopping in the distance I can see to be clear (but again, I'm on 4 wheels). I like to think that I can pre-empt black ice, by looking for "micro climates" in conjunction with the onboard temperature read-out. Likewise, I am more on the alert for fuel spillages at the bends closest to filling stations, and wet manhole covers are far less of a danger to me as 3 wheels are still on the tarmac.

 

[glojo]

Thanks, glojo, for taking the time to explain.

As a car driver, cossetted by ABS, ABD, ESP, (and probably BBC, ITV and PMT), I was not considering scenarios that are much more hazardous to a bike. Certainly a slippery surface poses its own hazard, and even more so to those on 2 wheels where balance is crucial.

I'm not going to take a bend at a speed that would prevent me stopping in the distance I can see to be clear (but again, I'm on 4 wheels). I like to think that I can pre-empt black ice, by looking for "micro climates" in conjunction with the onboard temperature read-out. Likewise, I am more on the alert for fuel spillages at the bends closest to filling stations, and wet manhole covers are far less of a danger to me as 3 wheels are still on the tarmac.

THANK YOU very much for taking my post the way it was meant and it will also apply to cars, but certain examples might not be so critical.

I know I keep prattling on about it, but the best advice we can all take onboard is is to never travel at a speed you cannot stop in the distance that you can see to be safe. Folks laugh at this advice, but all they are doing is gambling.... Of course the road should be freee from obstructions and when travelling around a blind bend we should all expect the road to be clear, BUT... The unexpected is always going to happen.

I lost a VERY, very good friend when he hurtled around a blind bend in his Mk I Ford Escort (with a Rover V8 engine) He went around this bend and most of the car managed to go underneath a fallen tree. Everything above the bonnet stayed on one side of this tree and everything under the bonnet went under the tree and out the other side, that included most of Martin's body (he always wore a full race harness) The really, really tragic thing was his father owned the garage that was on call to recover damaged vehicles and yes.... The father turned out not knowing what he was attending.

Life can be very, very cruel

Excess speed could be the causation of this tragic death but the legal speed limit on that country lane was 60mph and I would guess he was travelling slightly slower than that speed

Never travel at a speed you cannot stop in the distance that you can see to be safe.

 

[andy_k]

I tell you what john, here's a suggestion, rather than telling us all that we are wrong and that you are right, let's get a level playing field. Rather than expect us all to be telepathic, suggest a scenario and provide accurate descriptions of light, season, road conditions etc etc etc before telling us how to react.

I'd happily go on a refresher course if you can show me the page in any advanced driving manual where shouting in somebody's ear is used as a means of testing whether or not they are suitable material for IAM (or any other professional driver's organisation) membership.

I disgreed with your means of testing and now we havegone from kids running out from behind cars to black ice. Keep moving the goalposts to suit your argument as long as you like but you'll probably find that everyone else will go off and play somewhere else where there is nobody shouting in their ears to see if they are paying attention

 

[oldcro]

John (Glojo) was giving us some advice which he believed to be helpful. Maybe the example used (touching the ear) was not the best choice to make, but he was trying to be helpful.

I appreciate any advice offered, be it about maintenance, safety or life in general. My choice is to accept or reject it as I see fit, or offer alternatives if I think they would help.

Of course I am only a retarded ******** as was previously pointed out as a statement not an opinion.

 

[glojo]

I tell you what john, here's a suggestion, rather than telling us all that we are wrong and that you are right, let's get a level playing field. Rather than expect us all to be telepathic, suggest a scenario and provide accurate descriptions of light, season, road conditions etc etc etc before telling us how to react.

I'd happily go on a refresher course if you can show me the page in any advanced driving manual where shouting in somebody's ear is used as a means of testing whether or not they are suitable material for IAM (or any other professional driver's organisation) membership.

I disgreed with your means of testing and now we havegone from kids running out from behind cars to black ice. Keep moving the goalposts to suit your argument as long as you like but you'll probably find that everyone else will go off and play somewhere else where there is nobody shouting in their ears to see if they are paying attention

I have not movedANY goal post....

My reference to black ice had NOTHING to do with ANY of your posts. Iwas politely and very respectfully suggesting that braking is NOT always the answer.

To suggest a scenario is plain daft...


It is a game and sadly reallife unexpected situations are not games

If I write something down then as we read what I am writing to can think about how we would react or deal with the situation... Your suggestion is ill thought out and is noot what we are talking about.

Asking someone to unexpectedly do something was suggested because in my personal world and pleaser note the wording .. MY PERSONAL WORLD... When I am driving, Iwill have the radio on, sometimes quite loud and I sometimes sing along with the music.. I sometimes look at the navigation screen, I sometimes talk to my wife, I sometimes have a drink, or eat a sandwich... all of which are not conjusive with maximum concentration and how would I react if a piece of scrap metal felll off a lorry travelling in the opposite directiopn and this metal pierced my car windscreen? I have NO idea, but the explosive noise of that metal crashing through my windscreen would make my shouting (or requesting) you to touch an ear lobe appear to be quite angelic. I'm sorry if wewdisagree but such is life..

I also disagree with your suggestion of writing an incident down on paper and we all pretend it is an unexpected event.

The only person I have said was wrong was the person that suggested braking would ALWAYS be the answer...

If someone was to politely suggest I was wrong in my reasoning, then I would listen to them, hear what they had to say and then debate it. That is how we learn, but.... I fear that until I am convinced otherwise then yes, I beleve I am correct.

I still maintain that a real reaction time to an unexpected event will be possibly measured in seconds as opposed to milliseconds and I am NOT talking about racing drivers reacting to a situation that they can reasonably expect to happen.

PLEASE do not tell me how you would 'react' to my insecure load example as that would be an insult to our intelligence.. you have read what I wrote and thought about it; that is then not unexpected