RHD cars at a disadvantage to LHD

[wemorgan]

Interesting safety story about RHD cars originally designed as LHD

BBC News - Citroen Picasso UK recall over 'passenger brake'

Most, if not all RHD cars I've seen have the brake booster and master cylinder on the same side as the driver.

It reads as if the Citroen C3 Picasso instead uses a cable system to switch LHD to RHD.

I've not seen or heard of this system before. It almost sounds like the dual control cars you have in learner cars.

 

[219]

That is nothing new .

I'm now trying to remember which cars I have owned in the past had this - my thoughts are turning to my Audi 100GL or Passat GLS , but it has been so long I can't be certain .

Whichever it was , there was a linkage running across the front of the bulkhead to the master cylinder still on the left hand side .

Lots of cars also had assymetric windscreen wipers still set up for LHD , even though they were RHD and a huge unswept area on the right of the screen . Much as I liked their cars , VAG were guilty parties in this respect too , along with many others .

.......... At least I never came across any cars with a chain link to steering gear on the other side !

 

[Mactech]

I've not seen or heard of this system before. It almost sounds like the dual control cars you have in learner cars.

...Or in the AMG cars used at Mercedes World at Brooklands I wouldn't want to be an instructor without some control in those cars on a confined circuit!
The LHD and RHD thing has always been going on with some conversions more successful than others. Back in the early 80's I bought an MG Metro from Belgium and converted it myself to RHD. Not really that many parts as I remember and the overall cost was still well below the price the car sold at in England. They were called 'swimmers' in the trade!

 

[Doodle]

Eugh - reminds me of my BMW R100.

Hoses ran from the twin hydraulic discs up front to a master cylinder...located under the tank. This was then connected to the lever by a cable. Pointless (and now junked in favour of a bar mounted M/C)

 

[B325YUD]

Eugh - reminds me of my BMW R100.

Hoses ran from the twin hydraulic discs up front to a master cylinder...located under the tank. This was then connected to the lever by a cable. Pointless (and now junked in favour of a bar mounted M/C)

A trick now used by many custom bike builders to help keep the clutter off the handlebars!

 

[BTB 500]

The Chrysler Voyager's appalling NCAP score was partly as a result of the conversion to RHD ... don't recall the precise reasons though.

 

[Doodle]

A trick now used by many custom bike builders to help keep the clutter off the handlebars!

Mmm, I had noticed that - probably far less of an issue as vehicle dynamics generally take a back seat anyway in those cases

 

[wemorgan]

The Chrysler Voyager's appalling NCAP score was partly as a result of the conversion to RHD ... don't recall the precise reasons though.

The brake booster and master cylinder are quite stiff structures that intrude in to the space that the engine components take up when the vehicle is crashed.

Sometimes an OEM can put more of these structures on the RHS to free up space on the LHS that's need to stop the anything touching the master cylinder. If the master cylinder is contacted then the pedal box can also deform, which in turn increases lower leg forces. This mechanism is degraded on a RHD conversion as there are just too many stiff structures on one side of the engine bay.

 

[BTB 500]

Found it

Euro NCAP originally tested the Voyager in left hand drive (LHD) layout. Subsequently, it became known that right hand drive (RHD) cars are not equipped with the driver's knee airbag, although it is standard equipment on LHD cars (from VIN 6Y110573). Indeed, the driver's knee airbag is not available as an option on RHD versions. As the LHD car did not meet Euro NCAP's selection criteria, an additional frontal test was performed on a RHD car. The results from this RHD car are used for the Euro NCAP rating.

The LHD car performed significantly better than the RHD car in the frontal impact, scoring 9 points, giving a potential four star adult occupant rating. The main reason for this was the lower extent of deformation of the passenger compartment, which remained stable. As is normal for transverse engined cars, there is potentially less crush space available to absorb the impact energy on the side of the car where the engine is mounted. Without adequate countermeasures, this can result in greater passenger compartment deformation. In the Voyager, the engine is mounted towards the right hand side of the engine compartment.

It is normal practice for Euro NCAP to ask manufacturers to provide evidence that both LHD and RHD cars offer similar levels of protection. In the case of the Voyager, Chrysler were unable to provide this. Chrysler advised Euro NCAP that they had only tested a RHD Voyager at the speed required by European legislation, which is lower than the test speed used by Euro NCAP. Euro NCAP expects manufacturers to design and test their products so that they can ensure that both RHD and LHD cars provide similar levels of protection.

Although the LHD car was equipped with a driver's knee airbag, it failed to provide adequate protection in the frontal impact.

Chrysler Voyager | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

 

[John]

Lots of cars also had assymetric windscreen wipers still set up for LHD , even though they were RHD and a huge unswept area on the right of the screen . Much as I liked their cars , VAG were guilty parties in this respect too , along with many others .

Yup, this annoyed me when I had an E39 (N > 53) Alpina and the wipers were setup for a left hooker.

Big patch of non-cleared windscreen.

They are all the same.

I think the E38 7 series is the same (M > 51).

 

[BTB 500]

The previous model Voyager wasn't exactly a paragon either

The Voyager did so badly in the frontal impact that it earned no points, making it the worst of the group by some margin. The body structure became unstable and the steering column was driven back into the driver's chest and head.

Chrysler Voyager | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

 

[KillerHERTZ]

What about trim?

Late W202s (with Tiptronic), late W210s, W208s, W211, W209s all have the Auto gear shifter designed for LHD, the stick is in the way of the R, N, 1, 2, 3, etc.
+ the ASR/ESP button is the other side from the driver

Wasnt like that on older cars!

Also, the map reading light, the clock on the far right of the dash cluster (difficult for anyone apart from the driver to see), the moving cupholder, the list goes on!

Also, my Alpine headunit has all the major controls on the otherside away from the driver

 

[c2raig]

I work for PSA, so I'm afraid I can't comment on the C3P recall

What I can say is that it's not the only car like this, many, many cars are converted in the same way you could do yourself with little effort, especially on fairly low running cars.

 

[Rory]

What I can say is that it's not the only car like this, many, many cars are converted in the same way you could do yourself with little effort, especially on fairly low running cars.

I remember a recall on another car a few years ago for the same reason.

One of the things I like about Japanese cars is they're designed in RHD. Years ago I worked for Ford and even then all their cars were designed in LHD.

I wish we could change over - it would open up car options that we can't get now (ie AWB MB cars!) and would surely help prices.

 

[c2raig]

I've often thought it would be hellish easier for us to change over, cars would definitely become cheaper, we spend a lot of money tooling up for RHD on cars like the C6, for no profit, and often the cars end up sold at a loss.

The cost of each Renault Twingo I is rumoured to have increased by over 15% if they had done the RHD tooling, that's why they never did.

 

[markjay]

...Lots of cars also had assymetric windscreen wipers still set up for LHD , even though they were RHD and a huge unswept area on the right of the screen...

My Renault has that - very annoying.

 

[c2raig]

Amazingly, my C2 has RHD wipers.

 

[grober]

I have often wondered about the EURO NCAP ratings for various models. Mercedes inline with other manufacturers always seem to submit fairly low spec straight 4 cylinder models for test. I would like to see if the results for the Sport version of the V6 and V8 models are comparable since you might think the scope of the frontal crumple zones for these must be reduced considerably?

 

[wemorgan]

You're correct Graeme, the V8 would likely be worse than the I4 engines.

Though the cars are selected by EuroNCAP, taking the volume seller and not submitted by the OEM.

 

[Oli]

So LHD cars are built better, are safer and hold their money better than a RHD version, something to think about if you're ordering brand new I guess.