Ronnie biggs parole refused

[andy_k]

10 years is more than enough for the part that he played.[/SIZE][/FONT]

He hasn't served ten years though has he?

He escaped after 15 months and came back in 2001 - he's served about nine years and in the intervening thirty five years lived the high life in Brazil, sold his story to at least one 'newspaper', released a single with the Sex Pistols, sold Ronnie Biggs memorabilia, published his autobiography, made TV adverts etc etc.

He finally returned when the gravy train hit the buffers, he could no longer cash in on his name as he was too ill so all of a sudden he wanted to come home and be treated like a returning, all conquering hero.

Purely and simply, he hasn't earned his parole, he doesn't deserve any special treatment (they should have left him in Brazil really) and he certainly doesn't deserve any sympathy

 

[stevieb15]

He stole some money and a guy got hurt, compare this to Fred the Shred from RBS.

He "stole" loads of money and loads of people may never work again!!! Has Fred the Shred shown any compassion or remorse??

Did he commit a heinous crime??

Just a thought

230K

sounds like sixth form philosophy to me

 

[Mark300SL]

He hasn't served ten years though has he?

He escaped after 15 months and came back in 2001 - he's served about nine years and in the intervening thirty five years lived the high life in Brazil, sold his story to at least one 'newspaper', released a single with the Sex Pistols, sold Ronnie Biggs memorabilia, published his autobiography, made TV adverts etc etc.

He finally returned when the gravy train hit the buffers, he could no longer cash in on his name as he was too ill so all of a sudden he wanted to come home and be treated like a returning, all conquering hero.

Purely and simply, he hasn't earned his parole, he doesn't deserve any special treatment (they should have left him in Brazil really) and he certainly doesn't deserve any sympathy

Thanks Andy - That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole issue!

He only came back on the assumption that our free NHS can keep him alive longer than the Brazillians could! If he were fit and well I dont think he would have even considered returning.
He is no hero - just a criminal with an inflated opinion of himself who thinks a prision sentence doesnt actually apply to him


Mark

 

[RoseTattoo]

They bludgeoned the train driver with an iron bar and this person never worked again.... Ever!! His life was ruined, hisfamilies life was ruined, yet where is our sympathy for them? Whereis your sympathy for a train driver that was just doing his job and was beaten so badly, he was never able to work again.

Not only did the train driver never work again, he died some few years later, well before his time, having lived a miserable life since he was 'tapped on the head'.
That's fairly close to murder Mr. Biggs while you were living the great life, cocking a snoop at him and the authorities.

 

[Smarties]

Not only did the train driver never work again, he died some few years later, well before his time, having lived a miserable life since he was 'tapped on the head'.
That's fairly close to murder Mr. Biggs while you were living the great life, cocking a snoop at him and the authorities.

Please get your facts straight. Ronnie Biggs never set foot on the Train. The gang were armed with nothing more than pick handles, which no doubt contributed in the driver ‘having a go’, although he was to later say the gang had ‘treated him like a Gentleman’. The train driver, Jack Mills, returned to work the following day, but was pensioned off at the bequest of his employers. He Died tragically, but totally unrelated and of natural causes (leukaemia) 7 years later.

 

[flango]

Please get your facts straight. Ronnie Biggs never set foot on the Train. The gang were armed with nothing more than pick handles, which no doubt contributed in the driver ‘having a go’, although he was to later say the gang had ‘treated him like a Gentleman’. The train driver, Jack Mills, returned to work the following day, but was pensioned off at the bequest of his employers. He Died tragically, but totally unrelated and of natural causes (leukaemia) 7 years later.

errm speaking of facts

The great train robbery is recorded as Britains most high profile ARMED Robbery Some of the gang were armed with hand guns, Biggs was noted for bragging about his prowess of using a pistol in previous crimes. Bruce Reynolds was a well known armed robber.

Jack Mills was hit over the head with an Iron bar not a pick axe handle and never worked again or ever went into work.

All the facts are now freely available as detailed from the original investigation

 

[crammy69]

Even if he did'nt hurt anyone, he needs to serve his time or be seen to. However likeable or harmless he may be now, he did the crime.

Perhaps if he made more of an effort to show some remorse, he may well find the home secretary more inclined to show some clemancy. I imagine there's unlikley to be much public outrage if he is released early, but he needs to do his bit to help this happen, if only so that those young junior gangster wannnabes dont have yet another 'hero' ( ala Krays etc). He could make a belated contribution to the UK society he now wants to join by giving a remorsefull message to say its wrong to steal.

Lets face it he's probably got Sun Newspaper & Hello magazine deals lined up to help him enjoy his few remaining years, best he learn to eat some humble pie, its not much to ask.

 

[flango]

For those of you that have never read Biggs, Reynolds or Nipper Reads Autobiographies then this is a very interesting read that covers the main points and it also agrees with the facts published by the police

Ronald Biggs & The Great Train Robbery, the notorious 1963 robbery of the Glasgow mail train -- The Crime Library - Crime Library on truTV.com

 

[glojo]

I am all for equality and if Biggs gets pregnant then no doubt he will be released imediately, given a nice house and lots of social benefits and if he promises to stop smoking he will no doubt get an extra £25 per week .

 

[kikkthecat]

At what point did criminals become celebrities ?

Are the same people here advocating his release the same ones who miss those psycopathic murderers, sorry, those cute lovable rogues the Kray twins.

History seems to have a way of distorting the truth but Andy_k got it spot on, he's only here because his health failed and no-one else would look after him. Spare me the "he never did any harm" routine. not only did he do harm, he actually made a living out of peddling the fact that he did.

Rosemary West must be due parole soon, I wonder if she could make a living from chat show appearances and opening supermarkets.

 

[verytalldave]

Prison is about rehabilitation NOT retribution…...

Prison is used for several reasons..............not least.........
1. To remove from civilised society the unlawful from the masses and thereby offering them protection.
2. To prevent offenders reoffending while serving their sentence and hopefully act as a prevention for reoffending after release.
3. To act as a deterent both to others and also yourself from committing similar acts at some later point in time.

Clearly, points 1 and 2 in this case are void, but point 3 remains valid and will continue to remain valid until the sentence passed has been completed.
This clearly has not happened in this case. Biggs was sentenced to 30 years.
He has yet to receive a further sentence for the jailbreak he performed.
This no doubt will probably never be carried out.
So, in principle at least, he has theoretical sentence hanging over him of approx. 30 years outstanding to be served.

Are yes, I hear you say......but he is a frail old man who is unlikely to live a further 5 years. So whats the point? Why not release him.....?

Its exactly the same point that this 71 year old man got a sentence of 150 years last week.............

FT.com / Companies / Financial Services - Madoff sentenced to 150 years in prison

SIMPLE..........You do the crime - You do the time.

 

[glojo]

Please get your facts straight. Ronnie Biggs never set foot on the Train. The gang were armed with nothing more than pick handles, which no doubt contributed in the driver ‘having a go’, although he was to later say the gang had ‘treated him like a Gentleman’. The train driver, Jack Mills, returned to work the following day, but was pensioned off at the bequest of his employers. He Died tragically, but totally unrelated and of natural causes (leukaemia) 7 years later.

Wecertainly do need to get our facts straight. Facts are a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true.

You then try to tell us that because this gang was 'only' armed with pick axe handles Note your wording... 'Nothing more than pick handles'

In YOUR OPINION this contributed to this 'driver having a go'

Where are the facts in those opinions?

He was a member of a gang that robbed the train.

You rob the train, you take the pain.

I would like to say I am surprised at what Iraed on this forum and yes there does appear to be different standards of what is acceptable and what is not.

We have those that want us all to show compassion with law breakers be they supposed celebrities that rob trains, or pop singers that sleep naked with unrelated children. I am one of those that condemn both but I understand those that want to show this compassion.... I may not agree with them and I certainly do not respect what they say, but I do understand.

Does anyone here seriously believe that Mr Biggs is locked in a cell at a high risk prison?

I have no idea if he is, but I would suggest that if this is the case then he is not as ill as is being suggested. I would suggest that if he is this ill,then he will be in a hospital receiving the very best medical care available.

In fact I bet he is receiving far, far better care than most elderly folks that are unlucky enough to be admitted into hospital

 

[petermansell]

This thread has been stimulating. On the one hand I agree with a lot of the sentiments focussed on the lack of consistency in sentencing but I also believe Straw was correct in not allowing parole.

1) There should be better consistency in sentencing. For example, I think all crimes of violence should be punishable with custody.

2) Prison escapees who get captured should complete their sentence plus whatever extra penalty is imposed for escaping.

 

[Colin_b]

Difficult decision for Mr Straw.

Yes, Biggs is an an unrepentant and unpleasant crook, who took a relatively small part in a robbery that left one person seriously hurt. He was given, even by 1960s standards was considered harsh. He then escaped, and thumbed his nose at the authorities, until for whatever reason, probably selfish, he gave himself up.

On the other hand he is now an MRSA infected, immobile and incontinent 79 year old incapable of feeding himself, with a short life expectancy.

It seems to me that keeping him confined serves little purpose, and sends the wrong message. He didn't actually use violence, but condoned it. His treatment is also inconsistent - Reggie Kray was released when seriously ill, and he killed people, secterian murderers served less prison time than him (including his time on the run).

I would condone this treatment had he used major voilence, or killed people as Harry Roberts did.

 

[Frank O' Phile]

I was listening to his son? on the radio news this afternoon, asking that his father be treated the same as peadophiles, pychos and rapists.

Not the best argument to get him home.

Whether he dies in hospital or dies at home, personally, I'm not bothered where the venue is.

 

[scumbag]

Shoot them all, let God sort them out.

I rest my case m'lud

 

[Smarties]

At what point did criminals become celebrities ?

Are the same people here advocating his release the same ones who miss those psycopathic murderers, sorry, those cute lovable rogues the Kray twins.

History seems to have a way of distorting the truth but Andy_k got it spot on, he's only here because his health failed and no-one else would look after him. Spare me the "he never did any harm" routine. not only did he do harm, he actually made a living out of peddling the fact that he did.

Rosemary West must be due parole soon, I wonder if she could make a living from chat show appearances and opening supermarkets.

How you can compare the likes of Rosemary West, the Krays, or indeed any other psychotic murder to Ronnie Biggs is beyond me, It’s like comparing the Brinks Mat Robbers to a shoplifter, not condoning neither, but come on what basis do you have for your comparison.

 

[Howard]

What would be the cash value today of the amount they stole ( £2.6M IIRC ) ?

 

[andy_k]

they said about £38 million on the radio today

 

[Mudster]

His lack of remorse and outward distain towards the law is probably more responsible for his being held.

He is responsible for not qualifying for early release.

Smarties, your arguments hold water in many cases and I would indeed have backed your view with say, Tony Martin, but you've backed the wrong horse trying to get this point across with Ronnie Biggs. He's an unrepentant armed robber without an ounce of remorse.....that keeps him firmly where he is and rightly so. May he meet is maker at Her Majesties Pleasure.