Ronnie biggs parole refused

[glojo]

How you can compare the likes of Rosemary West, the Krays, or indeed any other psychotic murder to Ronnie Biggs is beyond me, It’s like comparing the Brinks Mat Robbers to a shoplifter, not condoning neither, but come on what basis do you have for your comparison.

I agree with all those that say prison is not to be used as revenge, it must be used as a deterrant and before you criticise Kick the Kitten for his comparisons, please tell me of any other gang that hasattempted to rob a mail train in the way this one was carried out?

Whether we agree with the punishment is irrelevant, the judge that convicted that gang did exactly what to me sentencing is all about...

He dished out a sentence that sent a message, there has not been another similar act since that date so how can our kitten kicking chaffuer offer a similar comparison?

 

[Colin_b]

I agree with all those that say prison is not to be used as revenge, it must be used as a deterrant and before you criticise Kick the Kitten for his comparisons, please tell me of any other gang that hasattempted to rob a mail train in the way this one was carried out?

Whether we agree with the punishment is irrelevant, the judge that convicted that gang did exactly what to me sentencing is all about...

He dished out a sentence that sent a message, there has not been another similar act since that date so how can our kitten kicking chaffuer offer a similar comparison?

I believe that following the train robbery, tptb changed the way they operated to make that mode of robbery rather more difficult.

The smart crooks moved into financial crime and drugs, which 40 or so years later show no signs of decreasing, and involve far, far more money than bank and train robberies even adjusted for inflation.

So yes, clobbering Biggs stopped great train robberies, but moved the problem elsewhere and magnified it. The deterrent element not a great success?

 

[glojo]

I believe that following the train robbery, tptb changed the way they operated to make that mode of robbery rather more difficult.

The smart crooks moved into financial crime and drugs, which 40 or so years later show no signs of decreasing, and involve far, far more money than bank and train robberies even adjusted for inflation.

So yes, clobbering Biggs stopped great train robberies, but moved the problem elsewhere and magnified it. The deterrent element not a great success?

We can all pontificate about different theories but the bottom line is no more trains were robbed in a similar manner. Hopefully all robberies are difficult but difficult or not they ended the day those sentences were read out. I can remember the huge furore when the sentences were awarded. they were deemed way over the top and totally disproportionate to the crime, but ...... The punishment ended anyone else from attempting a similar robbery and we must remember the huge amount that was stolen. Normally we would expect copy cat robberies, but no way hozeeee

 

[flango]

How you can compare the likes of Rosemary West, the Krays, or indeed any other psychotic murder to Ronnie Biggs is beyond me, It’s like comparing the Brinks Mat Robbers to a shoplifter, not condoning neither, but come on what basis do you have for your comparison.

How can you say that? Reynolds was leader of the South West London Gang and Edwards was leader of the South East gang, Biggs worked for Edwards as a henchman and they were all equally as bad as the Krays as the South West and South East gangs were noted for the vicious gangland killings and executions they performed.

I respectfully suggest you read some of the autobiographies and police reviews of the activities before during and after the robbery because your view of Biggs and the robbers is totally incorrect

 

[230K]

Ronnie Biggs is a legend!! He gave an "Up yours" to the establishment but it didnt work out. Pity

Hows that for a post to liven up a thread.

I will get my coat

230K

Oh and i know nothing about Biggs and what he did other than he was involved in a train robbery.

 

[bluevenetian]

"he was later to tell the wife of one of the learned defence who was assisting in a book, that he was treated like a gentleman by the robbers but was advised by police /crown/employers, if he said anything like this in evidence his pension would be affected! "


since when has hitting someone over the head being considered "gentelmanly"???????

 

[Smarties]

How can you say that? Reynolds was leader of the South West London Gang and Edwards was leader of the South East gang, Biggs worked for Edwards as a henchman and they were all equally as bad as the Krays as the South West and South East gangs were noted for the vicious gangland killings and executions they performed.

I respectfully suggest you read some of the autobiographies and police reviews of the activities before during and after the robbery because your view of Biggs and the robbers is totally incorrect

I wrote a very lengthy and detailed thesis on the Great Train Robbery and Ronnie Biggs in the early 80’s. No new evidence has come to light since then that I am aware of. I would say I am sufficiently well informed on the background of the ‘Job’ and it’s gang members.

 

[Baron_Samedi]

Has Biggs ever expressed remorse for being involved in the robbery?

 

[Smarties]

"he was later to tell the wife of one of the learned defence who was assisting in a book, that he was treated like a gentleman by the robbers but was advised by police /crown/employers, if he said anything like this in evidence his pension would be affected! "


since when has hitting someone over the head being considered "gentelmanly"???????

His words (allegedly), not mine

 

[flango]

I wrote a very lengthy and detailed thesis on the Great Train Robbery and Ronnie Biggs in the early 80’s. No new evidence has come to light since then that I am aware of. I would say I am sufficiently well informed on the background of the ‘Job’ and it’s gang members.

With respect

Just because you wrote a thesis does not mean your version of events are correct. Several of the facts you quote according to the police interviews are incorrect. The facts in the robbers and police officers own autobiographies agree with the police facts and not yours so if I were a betting man I know who my money would be on.

My family lived and grew up in London and being in the public house trade knew the gangs that were circulating at the time and also the gangs that are circulating now, things haven't changed that much, unfortunately my parents have long passed away but I still have uncles who remember these people very well and let me tell you there is no difference between Edwards, Reynolds, Biggs and the Krays all vicious gangland killers.

So I don't know where you researched your thesis but if you had spoken to the people that lived through that era you would have got a very different story. You may have gone into depth about Biggs and the job but your characterisation of Biggs , Edwards Reynolds and other member of the 2 gangs involved is well off the mark.

 

[jonnyboy]

For my two pennorth I do feel that he is not a danger to society.

I just heard on the radio of a teacher caught assaulting two pupils (I believe of a sexul nature) getting two years but has been told he is out on licence in a year.

Did he show remorse? Or only remorse at getting caught?

Who is the bigger danger to society?

 

[glojo]

For my two pennorth I do feel that he is not a danger to society.

I just heard on the radio of a teacher caught assaulting two pupils (I believe of a sexul nature) getting two years but has been told he is out on licence in a year.

Did he show remorse? Or only remorse at getting caught?

Who is the bigger danger to society?

So why bother?

Why bother going to the expense of a trial?

I know of any number of terrorist bombers\murderers that have got off of a convictionon a technicality, but can I say so what?

Some ofusare talking as though this person was locked in a cell for twenty four hours a day?

Does anyone know where he is? Mu money would be on a prison hospital which will have better facilities than any location he might have landed up in if he stayed in Brazil, plus I would suggest he is far better off than quite a few elderly sick people in this country, but once more we have folks more interested in the welfare of the guilty as opposed to the innocent.

Yes convicted folks have rights, but they have no right to special treatment or favouritism.

We must show respect to the elderly, but if they have commited the crime, they should serve the time.

 

[Mudster]

With respect

Just because you wrote a thesis does not mean your version of events are correct. Several of the facts you quote according to the police interviews are incorrect. The facts in the robbers and police officers own autobiographies agree with the police facts and not yours so if I were a betting man I know who my money would be on.

My family lived and grew up in London and being in the public house trade knew the gangs that were circulating at the time and also the gangs that are circulating now, things haven't changed that much, unfortunately my parents have long passed away but I still have uncles who remember these people very well and let me tell you there is no difference between Edwards, Reynolds, Biggs and the Krays all vicious gangland killers.

So I don't know where you researched your thesis but if you had spoken to the people that lived through that era you would have got a very different story. You may have gone into depth about Biggs and the job but your characterisation of Biggs , Edwards Reynolds and other member of the 2 gangs involved is well off the mark.

What you've missed here is the well known Interweb law where opinions typed in a very large typeface are absolutely true fact and irrefutable in the court of Google.


If Smarties wants to campaign for someones release, what about that lad serving 10 years for a murder someone else has confessed to? There might be a bit of moral backing for that, not for a scumbag armed robber who went on the run until he'd spunked all his ill gotten gains then came crawling back for free healthcare and pity. He's a scumbag ( no offense to scumbag of course)...I hope he dies where he is.

 

[Smarties]

If Smarties wants to campaign for someones release, what about that lad serving 10 years for a murder someone else has confessed to? There might be a bit of moral backing for that, not for a scumbag armed robber who went on the run until he'd spunked all his ill gotten gains then came crawling back for free healthcare and pity. He's a scumbag ( no offense to scumbag of course)...I hope he dies where he is.

Mudster. I am not campaigning for anyone’s release, only expressing an opinion, in the politest possible terms, to which I thought, perhaps naively, that I am entitled to do. I personally find it depressing that we have members of our society, so hell-bent on revenge and retribution, when the person in question is an elderly, infirm man, whose criminal past is well known and documented, who has served a reasonable sentence (regardless of age) and whom, and I think we can safely say, represents no threat to the general public, young or old, male or female. I don’t think RB could even catch a train, let alone stop one. There are no reasonable grounds to keep him incarcerated, other then the aforementioned retribution.

 

[verytalldave]

Depends what you mean by "served a reasonable sentence".
He escaped before he had served 2 years in jail.
He returned to the UK in 2001.
So has served a total of around 10 years of a 30 year sentence.
Not what I would term "reasonable".
But of course that depends where your sympathies lie.

 

[glojo]

Mudster. I am not campaigning for anyone’s release, only expressing an opinion, in the politest possible terms, to which I thought, perhaps naively, that I am entitled to do. I personally find it depressing that we have members of our society, so hell-bent on revenge and retribution, when the person in question is an elderly, infirm man, whose criminal past is well known and documented, who has served a reasonable sentence (regardless of age) and whom, and I think we can safely say, represents no threat to the general public, young or old, male or female. I don’t think RB could even catch a train, let alone stop one. There are no reasonable grounds to keep him incarcerated, other then the aforementioned retribution.

I think it great that we can all express an opinion but so far I have not seen a single post that has requested, or demanded revenge.

I am one of those however that have very little compassion for the guilty so does that mean I am hell bent on retribution?

Please keep contributing and hopefully things will not get personal and we can all enjoy carrying on with this debate.

A few months ago I voiced my disgust at the appalling standard of nursing care shown tothe elderly at Peterborough District Hospital.

Food would be put on a cupboard that the frail patient could not reach, after an hour a cleaner would take it away untouched. This was not a one off incident, but a regular occurance and folks would either starve or die of dehydration. I wonder what care Mr Biggs gets in a prison hospital? Should I feel compassion for this train robber, or should I complain about the lack of care shown to an innocent old lady to frail to reach out for herv food in a British National Health Hospital?

Oh and to take the icing on the cake, last week my motherin-law fell over, badly breaking her ankle..

THREE HOURS,three hours for the ambulance toarrive.

If Mr Biggs fell over and broke his ankle,how long would it take for him to recieve medical attention?

Incidentally I have finally wrote to the Secretary of State for Health, the loca lMP and the head of the local area Health Authority.

I cannot help but think this innocent but frail old lady would be far better off in a prison hospital where she would receive much better care.

 

[Smarties]

Depends what you mean by "served a reasonable sentence".
He escaped before he had served 2 years in jail.
He returned to the UK in 2001.
So has served a total of around 10 years of a 30 year sentence.
Not what I would term "reasonable".
But of course that depends where your sympathies lie.

Reasonable in relation to this. OT I know and they had age 'on their side', but I was 10 once and didn’t find myself doing what they did:
The parole board has decided to release the two schoolboy murderers of James Bulger, according to reports.
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, now aged 18, were just 10 years old when they abducted two-year-old James from a Liverpool shopping centre before torturing and killing him.
Venables' parole hearing took place at a secret location, followed by Thompson's appearance at a different venue.
The decision comes as a bitter blow for the victim's family.
His mother, has long opposed their release, saying they need to serve more time in custody.
Earlier she said: "I would say 15-20 years, I could learn to live with that.
"I know one day they have got to be released, but I think after eight years it's too soon for what they have done."

 

[oldcro]

The title of this thread says "Ronnie Biggs refused parole". I just wonder if he in fact asked to be paroled or does the parole board meet when someone has met certain criterions which may make them eligible for parole.

A mute point I know, but maybe he did not want parole and told them to stick it which means he was not refused parole. Just a thought.

As for comparing his sentence with other seemingly much worse cases, it is very difficult to judge without knowing all the facts.

 

[renault12ts]

The parole board recommended parole. Jack Straw said no.

 

[Colin_b]

We can all pontificate about different theories but the bottom line is no more trains were robbed in a similar manner. Hopefully all robberies are difficult but difficult or not they ended the day those sentences were read out. I can remember the huge furore when the sentences were awarded. they were deemed way over the top and totally disproportionate to the crime, but ...... The punishment ended anyone else from attempting a similar robbery and we must remember the huge amount that was stolen. Normally we would expect copy cat robberies, but no way hozeeee

Can you explain these inconsistencies in your theory?

Bruce Reynolds, the leader of the great train robbery gang got a 10 year sentence after 5 years on the run. He was released after 9 years.

Why did the leader of the gang get 1/3 the sentence of a footsoldier?

Why did another footsoldier Charlie Wilson, sentenced to 30 years as was Biggs, only serve 10 years even after escaping from prison and living abroad for 5 years.