It really is very easy to have other work done alongside insurance repairs . Some years back , after a landscape gardening truck went into the nsr wing of my W123 ( and the driver failed his breath test , being arrested on the spot , slam dunk for his liability ) my car went in to have the repairs done on insurance ; I then asked the body shop about having some other bits tidied up , was given a price - I paid my bit , rest was billed to insurance - car came back looking like new . That was with Western Mercedes body shop in Edinburgh .
RTA & the likely demise of a C124
- Thread starter CreosoteChris
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It really is very easy to have other work done alongside insurance repairs . Some years back , after a landscape gardening truck went into the nsr wing of my W123 ( and the driver failed his breath test , being arrested on the spot , slam dunk for his liability ) my car went in to have the repairs done on insurance ; I then asked the body shop about having some other bits tidied up , was given a price - I paid my bit , rest was billed to insurance - car came back looking like new . That was with Western Mercedes body shop in Edinburgh .
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You will. however, almost certainly receive several calls from companies inviting you to claim for whiplash and other injuries - I had one last week for an accident which occurred in May 2015, and their final line of attack was: "The insurers will have put money aside for a claim, so why shouldn't you have it?"
"Because there were no injuries to anyone, so it would be dishonest to claim" seemed to surprise him... O tempus, o mores.
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CreosoteChris
Active Member
Thanks for that advice Derek - it makes good sense. I'll try calling first thing Monday - no harm in asking, and it might lead to the right outcome without an additional 3 days off the road for the offside wing.
Chris
I get phone calls telling me I'm owed money due to an accident I back in 2003. I was paid out for the vehicle and the personal injury in 2005, despite that there are folk out there trying to persuade me to extend the claim.
The insurance company actually makes money from selling claimant's details to third parties, something I have always thought was a little short sited as the other side will be doing the same....
Be prepared for this unsavoury aspect of the insurance trade, and accept the fact that registering with TPS will not stop it, apparently it can be in the small print on your insurance agreement
The insurance company actually makes money from selling claimant's details to third parties, something I have always thought was a little short sited as the other side will be doing the same....
Be prepared for this unsavoury aspect of the insurance trade, and accept the fact that registering with TPS will not stop it, apparently it can be in the small print on your insurance agreement
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grober
MB Master
When repairing older cars another insurance "wrinkle" you may come across is the concept of "BETTERMENT" Fundamentally hinges round the concept that the insurance company has to restore the car back to the state it was in before the accident ----BUT NO BETTER! As an example your rusty offside wing gets crumpled beyond repair. The only viable repair is to replace it with a new wing-- BUT you now have a nice new wing instead of a rusty one--- that's betterment----- the insurance company may deduct that nominal increase in value from your settlement. Meaning you get a bill for the difference at the end of the proceedings! I don't know just how rigorously this is implemented nowadays but it used to be quite common with older cars a little past their best! here's a US example but the principle is the same I believe over here.
What Is This "Betterment Charge" That An Insurance Company Wants Me to Pay? | See Debt Run
ps this is entirely separate from what Pontoneer is suggesting of a contemporaneous body repair in an area unaffected by the accident itself which you are paying for and does not form part of the claim.
What Is This "Betterment Charge" That An Insurance Company Wants Me to Pay? | See Debt Run
ps this is entirely separate from what Pontoneer is suggesting of a contemporaneous body repair in an area unaffected by the accident itself which you are paying for and does not form part of the claim.
Betterment used to be quite common , but if you go as per my suggestion , having other work done at your own cost , you could argue that you have already paid the betterment element yourself , especially if you provided a good used wing instead of the hypothetical OEM new one the insurers charged you for ( while the bodyshop sourced the cheapest pattern one they could find to come within the insurance co's screwed down contract price ) then your argument will be pretty strong .
Doodle
MB Enthusiast
The counter argument to betterment is "Go find an identical condition part and fit that then".
Given that by the time they troll out the betterment line the job is usually complete, the 3rd party insurers quickly find they're on a hiding to nothing if you're willing to stand your ground.
Given that by the time they troll out the betterment line the job is usually complete, the 3rd party insurers quickly find they're on a hiding to nothing if you're willing to stand your ground.
grober
MB Master
I guess the counter arguement to that is the "reasonable business practice" one where the insurance company would argue that--- sure they could find a similar wing but are you prepared to pay for them to look for it ? That's the difference between operating as a company where cost is always the bottom line and operating as a private individual where your time is your own. They would then argue they are acting in the best interests of all policy holders by keeping repair costs to a minimum by adopting the most efficient and industry recognised practice of fitting a new or pattern part wing. Good luck with challenging that in a court of law. Many have tried to challenge it but I think the odds are on the side of the big boys on this one.
I sympathise with arguements against it but I was just making the OP aware its a phenomenon he might just come up against.
Doodle
MB Enthusiast
If you were claiming against your own insurance, possibly. For a non-fault claim against 3rd party there is extensive precedent - you cannot be forced into a situation where you are liable for costs of betterment as a result of the negligence of the other party. That doesn't stop them from trying it on though.
There is also the consideration that any clause regarding betterment exists as part of the contract with your own insurance company. You have no such contract with the 3rd party insurers, hence they are liable for repairs in full.
There is also the consideration that any clause regarding betterment exists as part of the contract with your own insurance company. You have no such contract with the 3rd party insurers, hence they are liable for repairs in full.
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grober
MB Master
agreed.
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CreosoteChris
Active Member
Got the 220CE back from the repair shop yesterday (they had no interest at all in doing the offside wing, for an additional fee, when I contacted the loss adjuster Monday). I feel kinda nonplussed on the whole….
….the paint on the car was always (well, since I’ve owned it) a bit of a patchwork - various panel re-sprays have clearly taken place over the years, a couple of them during my ownership. It’s a patchwork, and also a 24-year-old red car, with expected paint fading in evidence - so getting a perfect colour-match isn’t really possible.
Notwithstanding these limitations, I’m somewhat unimpressed with the colour-match that’s been done - I feel that the local back-street body-shop made a better effort when they did jobs for me. Maybe I’m being harsh - the passenger door is probably the dullest panel on the car, so the repairers were in a bit of a no-win situation spraying up the adjacent front wing panel (they also did the bonnet). Anyway, the work came with a 5-year guarantee, FWIW.
On the bright side, I’ve had a little motoring “holiday” in the factory-fresh Audi A4 hire car (TFSI S-Line, 190HP with 7-speed auto box) which I’ve enjoyed rather a lot. (This cost the 3rd party’s insurer 8 days @£195.00 per day (£1560) - a figure not entirely un-adjacent to the market value of the old C124).
Just need to get the offside wing done now, and also reconcile myself back to the world of sluggish performance - gliding serenely from A to B , rather than having instant “go” available under the right foot……
….as they say: ♪♫ ”How you gonna keep ‘em down on the farm, now that they’ve seen Paree?” ♪♫
Cheers
1993 220CE, auto, various shades of red / black leather, 121k, Manchester
….the paint on the car was always (well, since I’ve owned it) a bit of a patchwork - various panel re-sprays have clearly taken place over the years, a couple of them during my ownership. It’s a patchwork, and also a 24-year-old red car, with expected paint fading in evidence - so getting a perfect colour-match isn’t really possible.
Notwithstanding these limitations, I’m somewhat unimpressed with the colour-match that’s been done - I feel that the local back-street body-shop made a better effort when they did jobs for me. Maybe I’m being harsh - the passenger door is probably the dullest panel on the car, so the repairers were in a bit of a no-win situation spraying up the adjacent front wing panel (they also did the bonnet). Anyway, the work came with a 5-year guarantee, FWIW.
On the bright side, I’ve had a little motoring “holiday” in the factory-fresh Audi A4 hire car (TFSI S-Line, 190HP with 7-speed auto box) which I’ve enjoyed rather a lot. (This cost the 3rd party’s insurer 8 days @£195.00 per day (£1560) - a figure not entirely un-adjacent to the market value of the old C124).
Just need to get the offside wing done now, and also reconcile myself back to the world of sluggish performance - gliding serenely from A to B , rather than having instant “go” available under the right foot……
….as they say: ♪♫ ”How you gonna keep ‘em down on the farm, now that they’ve seen Paree?” ♪♫
Cheers
1993 220CE, auto, various shades of red / black leather, 121k, Manchester
fabes
MB Enthusiast
"This cost the 3rd party’s insurer 8 days @£195.00 per day"
Jesus HC!
No wonder insurance premiums are going up if they agreed to that!
PS I rejected a repair on a car (it was an MB) when I wasn't happy with the blending of the could match on the wing to door. Don't leave it too long or you will loose that option
Jesus HC!
No wonder insurance premiums are going up if they agreed to that!
PS I rejected a repair on a car (it was an MB) when I wasn't happy with the blending of the could match on the wing to door. Don't leave it too long or you will loose that option
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CreosoteChris
Active Member
Yeah - E55BOF commented along the same lines previously. It's not that the 3rd-party's insurers have agreed - they don't have a choice.
Provision of hire-cars for no-fault drivers involved in an RTA is sub-contracted to a service organisation who deliberately set the daily rate for hire exorbitantly high ...at the maximum level they can reasonably get away with. Some might say this is a "scalping" operation, creaming off a portion of insurance pay-outs, and forcing up premiums generally.
Not really to my taste - however I had no real choice but to go along with it.
As for the colour match - I don't think I have a case to press, because it's an opinion, rather than something that's cut-and-dried verifiable, when taken in the context of the car being the 24-year-old "patchwork". Looked at another way, the passenger door is the problem area of the paintwork - the other panels, including freshly-done bits, are brighter and shinier red.
Life's like that with an ancient car as a daily driver, there's always something that needs a bit of attention....
....or acceptance that you can live with it
Regards Chris
grober
MB Master
Your Audi A4 hire car (TFSI S-Line) costs a little over £32k new. You would lose more than the value of your old C124 coupe just driving it out of the showroom! That's the advantage of driving a car at the bottom of the depreciation curve. Any money spent on it maintains its [albeit relatively low] value. 
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CreosoteChris
Active Member
Back in the 124 Groove
Bringing closure to this thread.... some final comments are in order here.
I'm 54, but I've never previously had an accident in a car I actually cared about, before this little episode - so it's been a bit of an emotional roller-coaster for me, in addition to the workaday matter of dealing with the machinations of the insurance biz.
Thursday the car was returned to me on a grey and drizzly day whilst I was working at home - I just took a quick look, noted that the colour match was imperfect, drove it round the block, and went back in the house. Yesterday I travelled to work and back in the Audi hire-car (it was still available and insured for me, so effectively a freebie), setting off and returning in the dark. The insurance on that car ended midnight, now parked up waiting for collection.
So today (a bright winter's day here in Manchester) is the first opportunity I've had to have a proper look at the car, and a non-trivial drive. And actually the news is very good.
What I didn't notice Thursday was that the front bumper / air-dam section has been completely replaced, and it gives the front of the car a major refresh - obviously that part of any car has a hard life, and the old one was really showing its age, including pretty severe bumper scuffs even before the recent incident. It's a big improvement in the appearance of the vehicle - viewed head-on the car now looks like a new 220CE.
I drove it around for a few miles and quickly remembered why I love that car - it ain't no modern car, but the cabin of a 124 is great place to be, and it makes that Audi feel like a turbocharged biscuit-tin.
Phew! Normal service is resumed.
Chris
1993 220CE, auto, red / black leather, 121k, Manchester
Bringing closure to this thread.... some final comments are in order here.
I'm 54, but I've never previously had an accident in a car I actually cared about, before this little episode - so it's been a bit of an emotional roller-coaster for me, in addition to the workaday matter of dealing with the machinations of the insurance biz.
Thursday the car was returned to me on a grey and drizzly day whilst I was working at home - I just took a quick look, noted that the colour match was imperfect, drove it round the block, and went back in the house. Yesterday I travelled to work and back in the Audi hire-car (it was still available and insured for me, so effectively a freebie), setting off and returning in the dark. The insurance on that car ended midnight, now parked up waiting for collection.
So today (a bright winter's day here in Manchester) is the first opportunity I've had to have a proper look at the car, and a non-trivial drive. And actually the news is very good.
What I didn't notice Thursday was that the front bumper / air-dam section has been completely replaced, and it gives the front of the car a major refresh - obviously that part of any car has a hard life, and the old one was really showing its age, including pretty severe bumper scuffs even before the recent incident. It's a big improvement in the appearance of the vehicle - viewed head-on the car now looks like a new 220CE.
I drove it around for a few miles and quickly remembered why I love that car - it ain't no modern car, but the cabin of a 124 is great place to be, and it makes that Audi feel like a turbocharged biscuit-tin.
Phew! Normal service is resumed.
Chris
1993 220CE, auto, red / black leather, 121k, Manchester
grober
MB Master
When I had my trusty old W124 coupe for 10 years people who I didn't really know used to often come up to me and say " You're the guy with that nice old Mercedes" Nobody has said that about my W204 C class estate although it was worth tens of thousands more. 
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CreosoteChris
Active Member
I know that feeling, Graeme - 124 coupes are widely-admired, even by people (often women) who aren't interested in cars ...because classic style and elegance are universal things, not restricted to the automotive world.
The remaining good 'uns are going to get really valuable IMHO - examples like this are just the beginning, If I had a garage, I'd get another one for Sunday best / investment purposes.
Chris
The remaining good 'uns are going to get really valuable IMHO - examples like this are just the beginning, If I had a garage, I'd get another one for Sunday best / investment purposes.
Chris
