Rust - DIY or Dealer?

[grober]

None of the pictures you have shown would indicate any imminent structural failure. I reckon the best approach would localised abrasion with a small power tool to remove the worst of the rust followed by application of a rust converter such as Jenolite or Kurust gell. Some then advocate the use of a sacrificial zinc primer followed by a specialist paint such as Many of the rust prevention products manufacturers market complete all stage kits of chemicals to do the complete process. Many folks swear by Bilt Hamber products Corrosion Protection, Rust Removal, Car Wax and Car Polish from Bilt-Hamber UK others by Dinitrol Dinitrol Converust RC800 (1 litre) | Frost Auto Restoration Techniques

or POR 15 POR15 Rust Preventive Paint (946ml) US Quart | Frost Auto Restoration Techniques

Me I would remove all loose rust/sealer material as best I could with a dremmel {use a rust converter on what's left then wash off } =optional step and cover what remains with that black POR 15 ----- because its not visible you can apply it with a small artist type brush to the areas in question. If the colour doesn't match and that bothers you a £15 matching aerosol can be obtained from your local motor factor to blend in the treated bits

You could get a body shop to do this-- perhaps a vehicle refinisher/dent remover type guy------ its highly unlikely they will offer any guarantee the rust won't come back---- but they should be frank about what they would do and materials they might use.
Really its always going to be a damage limitation exercise at this stage but will delay rust progression for several years if done well.

Remember all cars rust - some just rust quicker than others. Sell it "as is" Treat it and keep the car or treat it and sell it while its looking good. Just keep an eye on costs in relation to the cars value at every stage of the process .

 

[MickyP64]

Thanks so much everyone for the advice - Graeme Grober that last one makes me feel a lot better…I want to keep the car if I can, but as you’ve already pointed out it makes no sense to throw good money after bad…so any cost needs to be kept to a minimum.

CRH71 I’ve had a chat with Barney Sands, they know this problem and I’m off to see them on Wednesday morning for an assessment. If it’s feasible I’ll get a quote…so thanks for that one…

I’m reasonably handy but I just don’t have the time to attempt this on my own since our little boy was born

 

[MickyP64]

Just to put this out there....

Curiosity got me looking at scrap cars for breaking...if my doors are too far gone (I thinking that they're probably not) what about getting hold of a collection of doors but make sure they're post mid 2006 era with the smooth seam seal...get them sprayed and fit them myself...though I guess there might be some subtle colour match issues....

Is that a completely insane idea?...thoughts anyone?

 

[hondo]

Depending on colour of your car if met black adjacent panels will need blend ,this isn't always necessary but to be right first time it's pretty much standard procedure

You need to be careful buying panels of Internet as breakers often don't regard a door covered in small dents as worth mentioning but you can be sure once freshly painted in black they will stick out like a sore thumb

As far as rust treatment goes fe-123 is IMO the best there is

 

[merc estate]

i am so sorry to read your horrific story, we all could have had this happen to us and i am sure i am speaking for everyone who reads this, we wish you good luck with this. But look into you new babies eyes and think its only a car thank god the babies ok, have fun with the new love of your life, Paul.

 

[MickyP64]

Thanks Hondo I’ll read up on fe-123, along with the products Graeme has mentioned…

Yes my car is black (191 – I think is Metallic Cosmos)…I’m off to Barney Sands first thing tomorrow I’m going to ask them for an opinion on all of the troubled areas my little car is suffering from and I’ll ask them if it’s feasible to re-spray second hand doors too, and blend if necessary…I have to be careful as I might end up back at MB type figures again but with second hand doors!

I’ve seen a few later model A-Class cars on the net at various breakers that look like they may have salvageable doors…If I went that route I’d have to view what I’m buying first of course…might be a bit of a mix and match though…

Mind you I’ve also seen a few doors for sale on ebay and the rust on those make my doors look great…chancers!

 

[MickyP64]

i am so sorry to read your horrific story, we all could have had this happen to us and i am sure i am speaking for everyone who reads this, we wish you good luck with this. But look into you new babies eyes and think its only a car thank god the babies ok, have fun with the new love of your life, Paul.

Absolutely, and thank you…my wife and I are very lucky and we’re very very happy…

Ironically our new boy was the reason we bought this car…we got rid of our twenty year old VW Golf (that had no rust or defects at all) because this A-Class seemed a newer and safer, more practical car - and I guess it is really!...Isofix seats, airbags, good NCAP etc…and a ballsy engine for distance motorway driving for when we head out of town to visit the grand folks….and actually I’m not really that car precious…I was just hoping that I wouldn’t have to buy another car or spend a lot on car maintenance for a few years, and perhaps I won’t need to…I might get a few years out of it yet...Just one of those things, we thought we were doing the sensible thing…

It does irk me that MB could make such a balls up on the build and then so coldly walk away from it…you live and learn…I’ll fix it if I can, but there are more important things in life as you rightly point out...

If you look back at the beginning of this thread I asked for advice on my problem car and several forum members encouraged me to approach MB for a resolution...and I said I'd document my progress here in case it was useful to others who found themselves in the same situation...I didn't know what the outcome would be and I didn't hold out that much hope that I'd get much assistance from MB at all...and I didn't...I got a result of sorts...it just wasn't a good enough result...so now I look at other alternatives...

Thank you everyone for your help, advice and encouragement...I think we're nearing the conclusion to this story now...I'll let you know what I decide to do once I've looked into my other options...

Cheers,

Paul

 

[MickyP64]

Just a last comment...

I found Mark really helpful and sympathetic down there at Barney Sands...sadly his advice regards the rusty suspension turrets is that it really isn’t worth repairing as the only guarantee he can give is that the rust will most certainly come back in the future, and he couldn’t give me an estimate of how long down the road it might be before it does return - could be months, could be years...and it will become an MOT failure...

So it really does look like a premature death sentence for this 7 year old car…MB don’t want to know and appears I’m powerless to force them into accepting any liability for it…This obviously makes any rust issues regarding the doors completely insignificant

Anyone mad enough to contemplate buying a second hand A-Class, please do check this area for signs of rust before you you go ahead…don’t end up like me…

I’m now looking for a replacement car…and when I find it, it WILL NOT be a Mercedes-Benz!

Cheers everyone,

Paul

 

[hondo]

That's sad news

Don't let the a class put you off mercedes ,I'm not sure what they were thinking when they built the a class to be honest

Your car is far from terminal almost any car of 7 years old will hav rust somewhere it will just be hidden underneath or behind sealer etc

Why has it rusted is what you need to ask yourself ,I'm almost sure from the pics that the metal is salvageable if u can eradicate the cause of the rust chaffing trapped water etc etc

 

[MickyP64]

Well I feel that’s probably the case too…but you see this is my confusion and possibly my dilemma…The problem is that the rust is obviously under the seam seal around the top of the suspension turrets…just how or why it got there I don’t know…everything else (apart from the well-known door issue of course) seems ok.

The problem is if I don’t do anything it will defiantly get worse…Barney Sands were concerned that they couldn’t replicate the seam seal if they attempted a repair and it was unsuccessful, thus the risk of drawing obvious attention to the area if I try to move the car on.

The advice was to do my best to hide the issue and move the car on as soon as possible really, whilst it doesn’t look too bad…a bit of a nasty thing to do but the implication was that if I took it to a main dealer (not necessarily MB) and traded it in for a new car then it would be quite probable that the salesman wouldn’t even look at the car too closely…he’ll just want to get his hands on my money and will move my car on somehow even by auction if necessary…The main problem here (apart from the moral issue) is that at the moment I don’t really have any money for a salesman to get his sweaty hands on…

So I feel a bit snookered…I feel that if I was able to get the car repaired I’d probably get a few years out of it yet…if I do nothing I’d defiantly get less years out of it…if a repair was attempted and found to be impossible then I’ve really done myself…difficult decision!

It was also suggested that I try to work some rust treatment into the crack where the seal has lifted then wax it and hope for the best!...but I don’t think that’s a very wise idea either…

 

[elisetype25]

Can I suggest you re-read your original post.

It appears that your anxiety levels have increased in relation to this issue throughout the period you have been investigating it.

Your original post asked for advise on the best way to resolve some rust and whether it was worth contacting the main dealer.

As you originally stated the rust on the doors looks worse in the photo's and the turret rust does indeed look superficial, as implied by the dealer response you recieved.

The bodyshop was unable to give any guarentee or assurances regarding repairs, as rust repairs are notoriuosly difficult to ensure the problem will not return.

I would suggest the state of the vehicle is much better than the doom and gloom bestowed upon it as a result of your research, and that it has many years of life left in it yet before any structural MOT problems will be evident.

MB has unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, rejected your claim, but this does not mean that the car is now scrap.

Personally I would put the dissapointment of the MB response behind me, re-read your original post, enjoy the car and try not to worry about problems which haven't happened. I might be persuaded to do some door repairs in future depending on how bad it looks, the cost of repair, value of the vehicle, and how long I intended to keep it.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards, and Merry Christmas,

Neil

 

[hondo]

Micky ,Neil is spot on with his advice

I removed a drivers wing on an A class yesterday
Having had this strut top area rust in my mind I decided to hav a closer look and c what could have been cause of your rust and how difficult it would be to totally eradicate ,I couldn't see any obvious signs or design flaws which would cause it to rust ,it is impossible to guarantee a rust repair unless you plan to replace the rusty metal and to be fair renewing strut top and flitch on your car probably wouldn't make economic sense

Truth be told your talking half hour to remove bumper, wing, headlamp ,splash guard and sill trim this way you can tell just how bad the rust is has it spread through to the flitch or is it rising from underneath or is it just the localised bit of surface rust visible in photo which could easily be repaired by yourself .I would go down this route before you make any rash discussions about the car

Hondo

 

[MickyP64]

Thanks Guys,

You’re advice gives me hope…It’s not my intention to come across as overly melodramatic!...trust me I’m not that type I realise that all cars rust and that they're all heading for the scrap yard in the end…I just get the feeling this one might end up there sooner than some others…

Hondo, I get the impression that you do this kind of thing professionally?

You see I’m getting conflicting opinions from dealers, independent body shops and forum members…and it gets confusing…My gut feeling is that a repair is completely possible but I’d have to remove the seam seal to really get a good idea of the extent of the problem.

Body shop chap said he couldn’t replicate the MB seam seal type after a repair - which I don’t think is a necessarily major problem if I keep the car on for a number of years. He seemed to think that the LHS turret was the worst and that perhaps I should just cover it up and move the car on…I think his concern was that if the repair was obvious I’d have trouble getting rid of the car.

I’m happy to pay for a repair (within reason of course)…I’d like to extend the useful life of the car if that’s achievable...

It's a bit catch 22..I can't judge how bad the problem is without doing some damage first...

 

[hondo]

I'm a panel beater ,my journeyman was a mercedes trained panel beater and i spend good bit of my career working in bodyshop that done all the mercedes warranty work in my area ,so I know a bit about em

I started my career with mainly accident repair but now reputation brings lots of rust related restoration work my way and to be honest a small percentage of it is mercedes, but metals metal once it's rusty

I presume you don't have a compressor at home so ur best bet is as I think grober advised a dremmel or similar electric device ,and what u want to do is only buff away the rust you don't want to be grinding away unnecessarily at good metal (it appears to only be light surface rust ,if you can post some better pics I'm sure I could find time to Give you a step by step guide on how to address it

As long as you keep it localised and take your time I'm sure you will manage to repair it so no 1 would ever know it was there ,with any rust repair where the customer is not willing to spend the money to have rusty metal removed and replaced I tend not to Give a guarantee but Iv successfully held back rust for years on many cars ,as with all body work treating rust is all in the prep and the use of good quality products (If u use primer from pound land DNt expect it not to rust again ) and use a good quality sealant that is right for the job,post more pics (including doors)and I'll c what I can come up with

Way I see it u hav nothing to loose by attempting a repair yourself

 

[MickyP64]

Hondo I really appreciate that…it’s very generous of you to offer your time…

I’ll PM you some pictures but I’ll have to wait until next week or over the Christmas break before I get the chance…The car is black so it’s a little difficult to get detailed photos in those back areas of the engine bay…I’ll try to get some lights on it…the doors too.

I don’t have a garage to work in…just the street outside my house so this time of year might make things interesting!,,,

Cheers,

Paul

 

[hondo]

I know it's murder, dark nights and your hands get so cold you can't feel your fingers but Iv changed engines at the side of the road in the winter (as the years catch me up the stiffness and aching in my hands make me think I shouldn't hav tho) wind is what ur gonna want to watch when ur doing the repair or you'll end up with overspray every where !