Scotland raises the standard

[grober]

Got rather sidetracked into painting my garage walls but a couple of questions - having watched all the various motorway patrol programmes on Dave etc which of course makes me an expert - do the Police keep a record of those causing accidents who are breathalysed but found to be below the limit? It would be quite interesting to see what the figures are for those causing serious accidents between the new and old limits.

Secondly, what are the punishments in the countries at the 50mg level? Here a conviction invariably ends up with a ban of a year, is that the same elsewhere?

Good question I believe there is a "sliding scale" of penalties in some countries depending on the exact alcohol level but after reading this guy's experience in Germany a year's ban might be a better option!
How To Germany - DUI - Not a Good Thing

 

[Dryce]

Weasel words and a cop out IMHO.

Holyrood maybe has more time to twiddle its thumbs and think about these sorts of things.

However looking at things pragmatically - we now have a situation where Westminster can watch and see what happens in Scotland.

If it makes a tangible difference in Scotland then I doubt they'd hold back from making the same changes in the rest of the UK.

 

[Howard]

A lot less places in Scotland selling alcohol after the start of this week too it seems.

Thousands of Scottish bar, restaurant and drinks retail staff banned from selling alcohol

 

[stevehg]

Your man George Goldie needs to do a teensy weensy bit of reseach. Took me all of 3 minutes to find this .
http://www.aaam.org/BAC.pdf

They make similar statements about speaking to a person next to you, speaking on a hands free phone.

I, like a number of people on this thread, would like to know what are the accident stats for the people that registered above the new limit, but below the old. This should have been looked and thoroughly analysed before making a decision, I would hope this to be done in England if we were to consider it.

Also, the timing of their launch was a bit odd? So you introduce the new law, and then have a blitz of random stopping/media campaign at early morning commute time. Is this the peak period in Scotland for accidents caused by drink driving or was it designed to have the maximum catch rate of people in the 50-80 band due to drinking the night before?

Also, the argument that everywhere else in Europe is lower, so we should be too doesn't wash, unless the stats back it up, that per capita they have uniformly have less accidents etc. Having said that, this same argument would result in us having a higher motorway speed limit! - but hold on speed kills too.

cheers, Steve

 

[prprandall51]

IMO the Rest-of-UK limit, which allows a single pint, allows most people feel they have enjoyed a trip to the pub without putting anyone at risk.

When I am driving, I can tease that one pint out for quite a while and then I can enjoy a non-alcoholic drink or two before heading home. I cannot see people feeling the same about a half-pint.

It's not "Drink-Drivers" that cause the accidents and need to be kept off our roads, its drunk drivers - and drunk drivers have no regard for the limit, whether it is 80 or 50.

This is just a meaningless piece of legislation whose only measurable effect will be to ensure the swift closure of hundreds, if not thousands, of Scottish pubs.

 

[After Shock]

Very good posts Derek!

I think you have said it all and there aren't "statistics" that can be used one way or another.

The one that most people miss us the morning after.

If you have had quite a few drinks the night before you can still be over the limit the next morning.

 

[Dryce]

The one that most people miss us the morning after.

If you have had quite a few drinks the night before you can still be over the limit the next morning.

ISTR about 10 years ago threre was an attempt to start getting the public to think about this - and also a bit more police presence in the morning.

But apart from that very little public education on this - and there's definitely a lot of people who don't even think about it after a heavy night before.

 

[kianok]

Don't drink and drive. .

That is all.

 

[LTD]

Well, day 1 of the new limits here in Scotland and I have just returned from a night out with work colleagues.

Normally, I would have a glass of wine or a beer with my meal and then nothing else for the rest of the evening.

According to accepted statistics, the timescale would suggest that the alcohol I consumed should have cleared my system by the time I drive home 5 or 6 hours later.

Tonight, I had sparkling water and then soft drinks. Still enjoyed myself and currently having a few beers at home.

There was a huge mention of the 5, yes 5, drivers stopped today who tested positive. I wonder just how many of them were between 50mg and 80mg .....

Two things are certain - not drinking is best and there will be a huge push on showing positive statistics for this change in the Law in Scotland.

 

[IanA2]

This can only be a good thing - and in plenty of time for Christmas too.

I wonder when England will follow Scotland's lead.

I just hope that it is policed well.

Shouldn't the title read: "Scotland raises the Saltire"

 

[219]

80 mg / 100ml blood = 35mg / 100ml breath.

50mg / 100ml blood = 29/30mg /100ml breath (if my mental arithmetic is correct).

I wonder what their advertising strategy will be; people still think in terms of two pints of lager or two small glasses of wine etc.

The strategy seems to be that it is unsafe to drink any amount of alcohol before driving .

I never heard of the two pint rule , but have generally considered ( for myself , being of average height and build ) reasonably safe to have one pint over lunch , then to drive home three or four hours later ; if driving sooner I generally stick to a half pint , and would not drive if I felt in the slightest impaired .

What I would be interested in would be the statistics for people between the new and old limits : that is , how much less likely are you to be in a crash at the new , lower limit than at the old one .

There also seems to much ignorance around the elapsed time between having that drink and your blood/alcohol level returning to a safe and legal one . Many seem to now feel that even one small drink puts you out of the driving seat for min 24 hours ; I rather suspect that , for most people having had one drink only , a much shorter period would see you legal again .

As has been hinted , most serious RTC's are caused by people well over the limit and , while someone just on the legal limit might be impaired such that reaction times are slower , it is debatable just how much of a danger they might be to themselves or , more importantly , to others . I do accept , however , that a line has to be drawn somewhere .

As has been said earlier , this will impact most on people , like myself , who live out in rural areas and don't have the luxury of public transport to their doorstep .

For many , like myself , coming home late from a night out leaves no alternative to either driving up from the railway station , or walking up dark , unlit country roads , possibly in the rain , for several miles .

While I would never go out and get blitzed before driving home , I now feel as though I am verging on being criminalised if I go for a meal with my family , having one glass of wine or a beer with my meal , and then getting the train back to my local station before driving the couple of miles to my house .

 

[219]

This from the Daily Mail sorry. There does appear to be a relationship between remote location, lack of public transport, local drinking mores and convictions
Rural motorists 'are twice as likely to have drink-drive convictions than those living in cities' | Daily Mail Online

I'd have to agree .

When I lived in towns or cities , public transport was within easy walking distance ( my flats in Falkirk and Glasgow were within easy walking distance of several pubs ; the Glasgow one had a railway station 100 yds away ) but where I live now it is two miles to the nearest village along narrow , unlit country roads , no bus service passing my way and forget trying to get a taxi late at night - there are others more remote than me .

 

[trapperjohn]

It will be interesting to see if pubs in Scotland put up the price of tea/coffee/soft drinks to try and recuperate any monies lost on drivers who drink alcohol less because of the law. That is if drivers do indeed change their habits if need be. Its like others have said, not many folk drink and drive now and those who did, to excess of the old law, still will.

Lancs Constab will be out in the mornings doing their "morning after" VCPS and no doubt I will get "pulled again" as there is one very local to me. I have yet to see one operating at night though.

I look forward to having a cup of tea with my forum buddies in Moffat ere long. I may ever throw caution to the wind and have a coke. Dangmanit.

Plenty of room in the forum courier bus if anyone want anything taken North or South on the day.

 

[LTD]

It will be interesting to see if pubs in Scotland put up the price of tea/coffee/soft drinks to try and recuperate any monies lost on drivers who drink alcohol less because of the law.

They'll make more profit if a driver changes from a pint to a draught coke.

 

[trapperjohn]

That's true.

 

[Charles Morgan]

They'll all die of Diabetes instead!

 

[IanA2]

Good question I believe there is a "sliding scale" of penalties in some countries depending on the exact alcohol level but after reading this guy's experience in Germany a year's ban might be a better option!
How To Germany - DUI - Not a Good Thing

Thank god for the RAF and the Russians.....

 

[Dieselman]

I never heard of the two pint rule , but have generally considered ( for myself , being of average height and build ) reasonably safe to have one pint over lunch , then to drive home three or four hours later

Do you mean going for a pint at lunchtime when at work?

There also seems to much ignorance around the elapsed time between having that drink and your blood/alcohol level returning to a safe and legal one . Many seem to now feel that even one small drink puts you out of the driving seat for min 24 hours ; I rather suspect that , for most people having had one drink only , a much shorter period would see you legal again .

The body excretes approximately one unit of alcohol per hour, so a pint of 4% beer takes about 2 of hours to fully remove from the system.

That means if you hit the pub at 6:00pm, have three pints, you should be under the limit before 8:00pm.

I'd say the Englisher have got it right. There is no need to be scared of going to the pub, having a sensible drink and driving. It's not those people that have collisions.

 

[219]

Do you mean going for a pint at lunchtime when at work?


The body excretes approximately one unit of alcohol per hour, so a pint of 4% beer takes about 2 of hours to fully remove from the system.

That means if you hit the pub at 6:00pm, have three pints, you should be under the limit before 8:00pm.

I'd say the Englisher have got it right. There is no need to be scared of going to the pub, having a sensible drink and driving. It's not those people that have collisions.

Yes , there are places within walking distance of my work ; I wouldn't have a drink at lunchtime if I was likely to be driving before finishing time ( usually 5pm-ish ) but if somebody's having a birthday or other celebration it isn't unknown to pop out .

I presume your 8pm was a typo and you meant 8am , as you wouldn't drink 3 pints and be clear 2 hours after starting , but might very well be OK the next morning .

Incidentally , does anybody know what level those DIY breathalysers they sell for people going to France register ? With the new legislation , they might be a fair thing to use if in doubt of your level the morning after having a few drinks .

 

[Dieselman]

Yes , there are places within walking distance of my work ; I wouldn't have a drink at lunchtime if I was likely to be driving before finishing time ( usually 5pm-ish ) but if somebody's having a birthday or other celebration it isn't unknown to pop out .

I presume your 8pm was a typo and you meant 8am , as you wouldn't drink 3 pints and be clear 2 hours after starting , but might very well be OK the next morning .

Incidentally , does anybody know what level those DIY breathalysers they sell for people going to France register ? With the new legislation , they might be a fair thing to use if in doubt of your level the morning after having a few drinks .

Interesting that you are allowed to drink at all during working hours.
Having said that, I was working next door to one of your larger establishments recently, and other than getting the tenders out for a wash, I'm sure they didn't move in two days. Perhaps the drivers were too p!ssed to take them out...

A pint of 4% beer is about 2 units. The body processes a unit an hour. 6:00pm to 8:00pm is two hours, so using the information already supplied...2 units (approx 1 pint) will have been excreted, leaving 4 units (2 pints), which should see most men under the limit.