service history missing

[markjay]

The bottom line is that the car has done a fair bit of mileage for its age (above-average, certainly), has a questionable service history, and failed an MOT due to two bold tyres. Was it well looked-after by the previous owner(s)? At any rate, I'd buy it on condition and expect to pay less than market value for a similar car with average mileage and FSH.

 

[vaibhavk]

Thanks all. This has been super helpful. Didn't expect so many responses within a span of hours. This is indeed a very vibrant community.

I have put together a timeline of service history (and the supposedly missing and dubious ones highlighted in red and amber respectively).



As per Mercedes DSB (and also the doc shown by the indie garage/trade seller), there has been one confirmed A service. This was over a year/14k miles after purchase in February 2018.

The indie garage (trade seller) sent me a text this eve saying that the current owner has managed to find text booking of a B service at Kwik Fit from March 2020 and will get service details from Kwik Fit tomorrow.

The indie garage (masked his name to protect his identity) has also sent me the following proof of a B service at his garage in November 2020. This service report carries a SecCode. Given that it's his garage, not sure if this is faked or genuine (any way to verify this?) He did say that he is authorised to update DSB directly so wonder why does the last service report not appear in DSB yet.



Assuming he is speaking the truth on both counts, there are hopefully two more verifiable services (highlighted in amber in the table above) subject to the seller providing verifiable evidence of those services.

What's missing then is at least two services (highlighted in red) which should have happened in the first 15-16 months of this car's life when it was with another (its first) owner. Given the extremely high mileage of 45k within its first or so year and with missing service history, not sure if this was used/abused as a taxi by its first owner. Wouldn't know as it traded hands before its 3rd anniversary and hence the bi-annual MOTs as required for taxis isn't obvious from its MOT history.

The indie garage has been mum about the first owner of the vehicle (citing data privacy rules, etc.) but if I were to progress with the purchase, I would insist on digging deeper on the missing service history details and will probably ask for more discount on what's already been offered.

Also, the indie garage has been trying hard to sell me a 1-year warranty from Warranty Wise for a very 'attractive' price of £299 over and above the 3-month standard warranty he has been offering anyway. I read the reviews for Warrant Wise online and it looks like an organised scam. So I don't think this purchase is worth the punt basis of this superfluous warranty alone.

Any other tips? Perhaps a paid inspection by RAC/the AA? Of course, all of this is conditional to the dubious service history (in amber) details shared with me. I have little hope for the missing (red) ones. Also, what level of proof should be obtained for the missing service history to be treated as genuine if it's not recorded in DSB?

PS: I just realised that I am submitting an insanely long post. I hope I don't piss you all off. Sorry, been desperate to get a ride for a while now hence the extra effort. As mentioned previously, this is at least £700-800 cheaper than the nearest comparable deal but don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish and hence want to weigh the risks.

 

[Crispian22]

I'd be looking for another car.

 

[tonysmb]

I would suggest that the DSB printout is genuine. I am aware that there was some maintenance on the MB system around November time last year as I had one serviced then and noticed that the system hadn't been updated afterwards, despite being assured that the garage had done it. I wasn't too concerned as I have all the paperwork and haven't checked since and tend to keep cars for 10+ years so I'm more interested in it being done rather than a 'stamp' or updated computer. I prefer it that way round .

However, in my opinion it certainly isn't a car that somebody will accuse of being over-serviced; I suspect that some of the filters might not have been changed when necessary and would tread carefully until proven otherwise.

 

[chic0821]

I think this will always be at the back of your mind. You will never be 100% happy with it, so better rejecting it now.

 

[vaibhavk]

Thanks all again.

The indie garage did send across the B service details from Kwik Fit this morn.



My little table below looks much better (read greener) now but there's still missing service history b/w February 2018 and March 2020 when the car should have been serviced at least twice as it clocked approx. 42k miles. It was still with its first owner who is difficult to get in touch with, I reckon.



I will insist on getting evidence of service history during this time else let it go as suggested by you all.

 

[Spider10]

I wouldn't say kwikfit was a b service
( personally I wouldn't spend all that money on a MB then take it to kwickfit) im sure by now it should of had extras needed eg ATF, DIFF , imo there's to many maybe's and too hkgh a mileage so I would walk but please dont take my word for it its your money

 

[Benz17]

In the scheme of things £700-£800 cheaper is not a lot, for the right car with the full service history. I would look elsewhere, buying a car is not easy at the best of times, and then you having to chase around for the service documents/history on top of that, nope not for me. But if you are happy to do so, and happy with the car, then that’s all that matters.

 

[Benz17]

I wouldn't say kwikfit was a b service
( personally I wouldn't spend all that money on a MB then take it to kwickfit) im sure by now it should of had extras needed eg ATF, DIFF , imo there's to many maybe's and too hkgh a mileage so I would walk but please dont take my word for it its your money

Definitely with you on this, would not dream of taking it to kwik fit for service.

 

[Benz17]

I'd be looking for another car.

Likewise, I’m sure there are plenty out there, with full documented and verifiable service history.

 

[Crispian22]

Likewise, I’m sure there are plenty out there, with full documented and verifiable service history.

I find its all to easy to get over excited when you think you've found the right car,always worth stepping back for an over view.

I looked at another Ml63 before I purchased mine thinking it was 'the one',very nearly paid for it over the phone before I viewed it also,a quick self induced sanity check told me it was a mistake to buy,so I didn't.

And then a month later I found my perfect specimen.

All to easy to think your going to miss the boat on a car and buy it without exerting due diligence,only to regret it later.

 

[Benz17]

I find its all to easy to get over excited when you think you've found the right car,always worth stepping back for an over view.

I looked at another Ml63 before I purchased mine thinking it was 'the one',very nearly paid for it over the phone before I viewed it also,a quick self induced sanity check told me it was a mistake to buy,so I didn't.

And then a month later I found my perfect specimen.

All to easy to think your going to miss the boat on a car and buy it without exerting due diligence,only to regret it later.

Yep this in a nutshell, the heart rules the head syndrome, I’ve been guilty of getting over excited on car purchase, but will always purchase with full documented/verifiable service history, and any doubts then swmo will make sure I walk away. Patience is the key.

 

[Cmonyoureds]

The fact that it was serviced at Kwikfit would have alarm bells ringing for me.

 

[Steeve]

Check this site for what was due at the 4 year service in Nov 20:

Mercedes-Benz UK | Electronic Service Sheet

View attachment 113287

Have you cross checked that all the required bits have been carried out per the record provided? A car of this age would have needed an expensive transmission service amongst other things.

If they have not been done you would need to do them as soon as buying, which could well eat into your perceived saving. Just "having a service done" doesn't tell you whether all the required bits have been done. Unless the Kwik Fit invoice or dsb confirm it the you should assume NOT done.

If you're planning on proceeding I'd be offering a knock down price only, pointing out all the flaws in his attempted sale.

 

[markjay]

Thanks all again.

The indie garage did send across the B service details from Kwik Fit this morn.

View attachment 113286

My little table below looks much better (read greener) now but there's still missing service history b/w February 2018 and March 2020 when the car should have been serviced at least twice as it clocked approx. 42k miles. It was still with its first owner who is difficult to get in touch with, I reckon.

View attachment 113287

I will insist on getting evidence of service history during this time else let it go as suggested by you all.

Well, it's better than nothing... my comments, however, are:

1. I can't see any reference to 'Mercedes-Benz Service Schedule B' , but at lease they changed the engine oil and filter and replaced the brake fluid.

2. On the C-Class, Service Schedule B includes replacing the active charcoal filter (cabin/pollen filter) - it is not clear from the invoice if this has been replaced, and if so, what part was used.

3. It is not clear from the invoice if the engine oil is to the correct MB Spec Sheet i.e. MB229.51/MB229.52. Fuchs make great oil, but in varying specs. As far as I could see the Fuchs Titan GT1 is only MB229.31 compliant - but not sure about this.

4. The brake fluid is listed as Dot 4, while the MB spec is Dot 4+. They may have actually used Dot 4+, but it's not clear from the invoice.

5. It is still not clear when the following were last done: air filter replacement, fuel filter replacement, ATF and filter change.

My view is that this car definitely has a checkered past. If you do want it, then (a) buy on condition only - forget service bills, (b) pay for it well below market value for a similar car with only average mileage and FSH, and (c) set aside a sum of money to get the car fully serviced by a reputable indie and for sorting-out any issues that will crop-up later.

As for purchasing a mechanical breakdown warranty for a car bought from a trader... I must say I never understood why a buyer would pay money for a financial product that protects the seller. The buyer has a warranty as described in the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Trade sellers know that, and are happy to 'sell' buyers third-party warranties so that they don't have to incur any repair costs themselves. Plus they make a profit on selling it to the buyer... what's not to like (if you are a trade seller)?

 

[Fastcar155]

Hi , As mentioned by a previous member why buy a Mercedes and service it as Kwik Fit.

You are having issues with the seller now !

 

[vaibhavk]

Have you cross checked that all the required bits have been carried out per the record provided? A car of this age would have needed an expensive transmission service amongst other things.

Yes, I did go through the 4 year service details on Mercedes-Benz UK | Electronic Service Sheet

I am not sure how to read it though.

I see the following for a B service for this make after declaring that the vehicle is over 4 years old. I have highlighted the service suggestion items that match the entries in the November 2020 B service DSB report.

Replace battery in key fob

Conduct additional operation “Top up with AdBlue”

Yes

No

Conduct additional operation “Replace activated charcoal dust filter” (MODEL 205)

Yes (Nov 20 DSB says Air Filter Element replaced)

No

Conduct additional operation "Factory inspection work on driving aids"

Yes

No

Fill up/replace perfume atomizers flacon

Yes

No

Every 15,500 miles/2 years

Replace activated charcoal dust filter (Nov 20 DSB says Air Filter Element replaced)

Service 3 At every service

Engine: change oil and filter

Service 4 - Every 2 years

Brake system: Replace brake fluid (replaced at Kwik Fix service in March 2020)

Service 8 - Every 31,000 miles/3years

Rear axle: Perform oil change (With code 471 ( Mechanical locking differential ) or with code 467 (Electronic locking differential) (No evidence of this being done at the Kwik Fix service in March 2020 nor in the B service in November 2020)

November 2020 service history screenshot below:



This last service seems to have covered 'most' of the things but I am not an expert so don't know how to read it.

By the way, what does 'Remaining time' of -628 days mean? Does it mean that this service has been overdue for 628 days?

Anyway, I guess I will go back to the drawing board and start my search from scratch.

Slightly off-topic, but would any of you recommend Cargiant in London? I hope they will be more trustworthy compared to the indie sellers on Autotrader. Either way, won't let my guard down and will progress only after satisfactory due diligence.

 

[vaibhavk]

Thanks for a detailed response. I saw your message only after posting my previous comment.

Well, it's better than nothing... my comments, however, are:

1. I can't see any reference to 'Mercedes-Benz Service Schedule B' , but at lease they changed the engine oil and filter and replaced the brake fluid.

The trade seller (that's actually an indie garage where the car was last serviced in Nov 20 with a DSB entry) told me that the Kwik Fit service in March 20 was a full service "ultimate treatment package" with brake fluid change. Whatever is meant by ultimate treatment package is anybody's guess.

On a more positive note, the last service (in Nov 20 by the indie garage -- screenshot of DSB in my previous post above) was a full service.

2. On the C-Class, Service Schedule B includes replacing the active charcoal filter (cabin/pollen filter) - it is not clear from the invoice if this has been replaced, and if so, what part was used.

Last B service report from Nov 20 shows air filter element replaced. Not sure if that's the same as activated charcoal filter? I guess not.

3. It is not clear from the invoice if the engine oil is to the correct MB Spec Sheet i.e. MB229.51/MB229.52. Fuchs make great oil, but in varying specs. As far as I could see the Fuchs Titan GT1 is only MB229.31 compliant - but not sure about this.

Last B service report from Nov 20 shows MB229.51

4. The brake fluid is listed as Dot 4, while the MB spec is Dot 4+. They may have actually used Dot 4+, but it's not clear from the invoice.

5. It is still not clear when the following were last done: air filter replacement, fuel filter replacement, ATF and filter change.

Last B service report from Nov 20 shows air filter and oil filter change

My view is that this car definitely has a checkered past. If you do want it, then (a) buy on condition only - forget service bills, (b) pay for it well below market value for a similar car with only average mileage and FSH, and (c) set aside a sum of money to get the car fully serviced by a reputable indie and for sorting-out any issues that will crop-up later.

As for purchasing a mechanical breakdown warranty for a car bought from a trader... I must say I never understood why a buyer would pay money for a financial product that protects the seller. The buyer has a warranty as described in the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Trade sellers know that, and are happy to 'sell' buyers third-party warranties so that they don't have to incur any repair costs themselves. Plus they make a profit on selling it to the buyer... what's not to like (if you are a trade seller)?

This is the indie garage selling me the car. This link will take you the car I have (or rather had) been considering. The garage has great reviews on AutoTrader and Google but we know that reviews can be manufactured. He is offering a 3-month warranty as standard which includes the first 30-days of 'enhanced warranty'. But he has been pushing really hard to up-sell a 1-year warranty at £299 or a 2-year warranty at £499 from Warranty Wise (who have dubious reviews online).

 

[markjay]

...By the way, what does 'Remaining time' of -628 days mean? Does it mean that this service has been overdue for 628 days?...

Yes, this is exactly what it means. But keep in mind that the MB Digital Service Book won't know about the KwikFit service, obviously. So as far as the DSB is concerned, the last (recorded) service was done 628 days after it was due (and it was due 12 months after the previous service).

 

[markjay]

...Slightly off-topic, but would any of you recommend Cargiant in London? I hope they will be more trustworthy compared to the indie sellers on Autotrader. Either way, won't let my guard down and will progress only after satisfactory due diligence.

I like buying cars from Cargiant, but you need to know how to buy from them... it's a no-frills service, as the cars are sold as-is (apart for any mechanical faults, which they will rectify prior to sale).

They have a very efficient process in place and lots of stuff to get people moving. Their sales people are mostly young and 'read from a script'.

There's absolutely no bargaining on price or anything else, it's totally 'take it or leave it'.

Some of the cars are perfect, others will have scrapes or dents, will have no service history, will be overdue a service, won't have the owner's manual, will come with only one key, will have the SatNav SD-Card missing, etc etc. They do absolutely nothing to the cars after buying them in auctions (as said, other than fixing mechanical faults), then wash and hoover.

So it's entirely up to you to check that everyone is where it should be, etc - assume nothing.

That said, my experience is that they are honest and have not said anything that wasn't true (though, again, they won't necessarily volunteer information about the car that you might have wanted to know).

And, they will do their utmost to sell you a mechanical breakdown warranty... to the extent that they won't sell you the car unless you sign a paper that says that you 'refuse' the warranty (which is just an intimidating technique, given that you are obviously not signing-away your statutory rights).

But, again, you'll need to know how to get the feel of a car on sale. Are the panel gaps straight and equal? Are there any panels with a different shade? Does it have 4 premium tyres, or a collection of 4 worn budget tyres? What do the discs look like? The engine bay? The interior? Etc.