Sheffield crash

[Deleted member 6183]

Typical knee-jerk reactions to bad news.

 

[Ted]

But what is the answer though. I certainly don’t know.

FWIW, the guy who was found guilty of killing my brother, his wife, two daughters - 7 and eighteen months, his wife’s niece, and left his youngest, 7 months clinging to life with massive brain injuries such that she will never live an independent life, got 4 1/2 years.

 

[WDB124066]

Holy heck Ted!!

You'd be in the best position on here to give it some serious thought and make a few suggestions, anybody in officialdom ever come a knocking for your thoughts...?

 

[Scott_F]

Holy heck Ted!!

You'd be in the best position on here to give it some serious thought and make a few suggestions, anybody in officialdom ever come a knocking for your thoughts...?

What do you think ?

 

[brucemillar]

The chap that murdered (stabbed) my wife's younger 18 year old brother got seven years, out in four (tried at the Old Bailey) Funny he got early release, he was already on early release having murdered a serving Police Officer (aged 24) his wife and children were not impressed at the sentence. As for the killer? He returned to Scotland and shot dead on his doorstep. I believe that there were street parties.

So some folk take a very different view on people who choose to kill others. I dont believe that thee is a single day tat my wife does not think about her "kid" brother. In a terrible twist of fate, five (yes FIVE) of her brothers friends died when their car crashed on the way to the funeral.

So prison works? No it does not.

 

[WDB124066]

Times like this you feel lucky, it is hard to get your head around all this stuff guys.

New York had bad crime problem in the 70's - remember? They went after that with the zero tolerance policy. That combined with some military correction may make a difference. Would the military like the prison budget - all of it...?

 

[Ted]

Truth is, there are no thoughts of revenge, nor of forgiveness.
Nor were we contacted by any authorities other than the ‘knock on the door’
This was a young man who drove a garbage truck with faulty brakes having disabled both the warning buzzer and warning light.
Unsurprisingly the brakes failed and the truck rolled over onto the car.
As said, I simply don’t have the answers, but what I can say for sure is that the poor family in Sheffield will feel cheated, and no amount of ‘justice’ will make them feel any better.

 

[219]

Geez you guys are violent - just breeds violence, can't you see that?

Is it not better to get them thinking straight and contributing. Do you think prison gets them thinking straight? Or is it just a breeding ground for revenge...?

Straighten up and fly right rather than crash and burn.

Perhaps fine to give first offenders a chance , with a bit of leniency and the opportunity of rehabilitation; especially if it can be shown they were of hitherto good character and remorseful of their actions .

But I’m afraid that repeat offenders , who have been given their chances and **** a snoot at the law - these ones should reach a limit ( the American three strikes and you’re out rule seems reasonable to me ) after which the sentence should be punitive and set to be a deterrent to others .

Fair enough a motorist who , out of character , makes a tragic mistake ( could be any of us ) which results in a death or horrific injuries - it could be argued that it is unlikely to happen again so lenient sentencing is appropriate; but a boy racer with a string of previous convictions who flees from police in a stolen car , with no licence or insurance - that is no accident: it is a deliberate and reckless course of action carried out with complete disregard to the safety or wellbeing of others . That guy had all the chances in life that he deserved and I think that losing a limb for each life he takes is about right . It will give him cause to think about what he did for the rest of his days .

The guy at the start of this thread effectively wiped out a family , leaving a number of loved ones with a huge hole in their lives until they join their dead relatives in the next life - why should the person who maliciously caused all of this ever be able to return to any kind of normality - his victims certainly can’t .

Death is too good for him : it is only right that he should endure a lifetime of misery and suffering, because that is what he dealt out to others , through pure badness - nothing else .

If we did start treating wrongdoers strictly enough , then it might just deter others .

 

[219]

But what is the answer though. I certainly don’t know.

FWIW, the guy who was found guilty of killing my brother, his wife, two daughters - 7 and eighteen months, his wife’s niece, and left his youngest, 7 months clinging to life with massive brain injuries such that she will never live an independent life, got 4 1/2 years.

Was it a tragic accident or the result of deliberate and reckless wrongdoing ?

For example , someone who took a stroke or heart attack at the wheel of a lorry and wiped out your family , I could see the argument for leniency; but if he was some hardened criminal who was driving recklessly because he didn’t give a toss for anyone else - I could happily chop off his bits myself .
Seriously .

 

[219]

Times like this you feel lucky, it is hard to get your head around all this stuff guys.

New York had bad crime problem in the 70's - remember? They went after that with the zero tolerance policy. That combined with some military correction may make a difference. Would the military like the prison budget - all of it...?

Trouble is , I don’t think the military want these dregs of society either : all they’d be good for would be target practice.

 

[Ted]

It was an ‘accident’. The driver drove on a ‘rat run’ knowing that the braking system was faulty, and disabling all the warnings. Not just him but the company knew also.
My mum, a gentle woman who never said a bad word about anyone said “It wasn’t and accident. It was murder”
It broke her and caused her to have a number of strokes and tias.

 

[Ted]

Truth is I just don’t think the enormity of what could happen entered his mind that day.

 

[219]

Truth is, there are no thoughts of revenge, nor of forgiveness.
Nor were we contacted by any authorities other than the ‘knock on the door’
This was a young man who drove a garbage truck with faulty brakes having disabled both the warning buzzer and warning light.
Unsurprisingly the brakes failed and the truck rolled over onto the car.
As said, I simply don’t have the answers, but what I can say for sure is that the poor family in Sheffield will feel cheated, and no amount of ‘justice’ will make them feel any better.

Well , that is a harder one to decide .

Clearly there was negligence, some wrongdoing , but perhaps not a deliberate intent to cause harm .

A lot would depend on his background and previous conduct .

Certainly a period in jail and a driving ban , both substantial, strike me as the very least sentence appropriate.

 

[219]

It was an ‘accident’. The driver drove on a ‘rat run’ knowing that the braking system was faulty, and disabling all the warnings. Not just him but the company knew also.
My mum, a gentle woman who never said a bad word about anyone said “It wasn’t and accident. It was murder”
It broke her and caused her to have a number of strokes and tias.

Ted , that’s truly awful - I’m so sorry to hear , and can’t imagine what that must be like .

There’s clearly more to this story though : it sounds as though the company were complicit in this ; perhaps more to blame than the driver who perhaps feared for his job if he refused to take This unroadworthy vehicle out on the roads ...

I’d hope that the company director and the service or fleet manager were held to account too .

They should have maintenance records , a safe system of work etc etc .

While the driver has responsibilities , theirs arguably are greater .

I hope the company were heavily fined , and that their insurers will pay for the ongoing care for the little one who was so tragically and horrifically injured .

 

[Ted]

Long story, Pontoneer. This all happened in America.
Time, and your brain protecting you makes things a little fuzzy, but yes, the company owner was jailed, I can’t remember for how long. There was a fine - cleverly worked out so that the company could not go bankrupt and start again, and the insurance paid out such that Annie will never need to worry about care.
I was over there for the case for the insurance claim and that part of the American legal system, I will always hold in the very highest regard.
The fact that Sean’s company (Mars) engaged the very best lawyers in New Jersey also helped - I remember someone saying to me at the time that the main guy representing us was someone that you never wanted to be on the opposite side of.

 

[brucemillar]

The simple problem with any “three strikes” system is when you are in that number three.

My wife and her family never got to grieve. Between the Police and the press that had zero privacy. The murderer sat in court surrounded by his family who painted a picture of a gentle soul who had lost his way. History told a different tale. One of drugs, money and extreme violence. All of this pretty much from his very early teen years.

Why did he do it? Well he said that mice’s brother gave him a funny look as they both queued up in a takeaway (they were not together). Why was he carrying a 9” kitchen knife? He said he needed protection but could not say who or what from.

Was he remorseful. Well he ran away to the US that night paid for by his family who happily hid the truth.

Lower than low. Nobody knows the damage he wrought that night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yugguy]

Yes, it has become a bit of Daily Mail readers' comments...

I think that's a cheap jibe and akin to this: Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia

What would you do with the serial criminals who can't and won't change their ways?

 

[markjay]

..What would you do with the serial criminals who can't and won't change their ways?

Whatever it is, I would still wait for people to actually offend rather than take preemptive punitive measures based on the statistical likelihood of them starting to offend in future.

 

[brucemillar]

Folks

It bothers me that I wrote this in an open forum. But hey, it bothered me enough to make me feel, I need to write about it. A day later and it still bothers me.

So why did I write it? Well here is the thing. I would ask that all of us have a little think before replying to threads like this where it may be reasonable to expect that some members on here will have been directly or, indirectly caught up in something similar that makes them feel strongly enough to publish a response.

These are not victimless crimes (are any crimes victimless?). People die and others lives are torn apart, all on the whim of some fool. Families are destroyed in the most awful slow burn manner. To some of our members these are not words on a forum. These are real people, loved ones, people who filled lives and now fill them for all the wrong reasons.

Sometimes the victims response may well appear harsh. But there is little left apart from harshness. Some can forgive, others cannot. But that was not a choice for them.

Enough said. In my families case, it still hurts every minute of every day. It doesn't go away.

Enough waffle from me.

 

[219]

Whatever it is, I would still wait for people to actually offend rather than take preemptive punitive measures based on the statistical likelihood of them starting to offend in future.

Just to avoid confusion, I did not advocate preemptive punitive measures : I suggested all along that first offenders be considered for leniency, and depending on circumstances possibly a second chance ; but by the time someone has offended three times ; that’s their third strike , by which time they’ve twice been shown leniency and the chance to rehabilitate. If by that time ( the third offence ) they have shown a pattern of offending , then leniency should be off the table and punitive sentencing applied .

I also think that if someone takes a life out of pure criminality and badness , then removing a limb for each human life they ended is not unreasonable, for two reasons : one it reduces the chance of reoffending as an amputee would find it harder to do so ( driving offences resulting in death - take off the right leg to start with - makes it harder to drive , and certainly to run away after a crash ) ; and two - it will be a constant reminder of what they did , something they will never forget .

Some countries in the Middle East , I believe, will cut off the hand of a thief - what are the crime statistics there , I wonder ?