Speed Awareness Course

[219]

I May 2004 I got stopped on the A380 down here by a lone traffic officer...

Therein lies another important difference : in Scotland , thanks to our superior legal system , there have to be two officers for corroboration - you cannot be convicted on the evidence of a lone constable , who might , after all , be mistaken in what he thought he saw , particularly if he was having a 'bad day' .

 

[219]

Does anyone else remember this advert that they ran for some considerable time? -

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And at this time you were only eligible for a speed awareness course if you fell within the following criteria -
The criteria used for assessing eligibility for the speed awareness course
is speed within range of speed limit + 10% + 2mph to speed limit + 10% +
6mph. i.e. in a 30 mph limit 35 - 39 mph, also must not have completed a
previous course within the last 3 years and the offender must have
identified themselves to police by fully complying with legal requirements
under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and is able to be referred
to our service provider within 95 days of the alleged offence.

Strange how the tolerance is now set at a speed in excess of that deemed to be lethal in 80% of pedestrian collisions, well actually no not really as the Tory government announced a freeze on 'safety' camera spending in 2010. Given that there are a lot of people making a lot of money out of speed enforcement, companies like Road Safety Support, AA Drivetech and the likes, with the freezing of 'safety' camera spending the cash cow still needed feeding, not to mention a number of jobs within the ticket offices of police forces across the country.

So with their source of new revenue being cut off it didn't take them long to work out that if they raised the tolerance for speed awareness courses they could make up the shortfall, they rely on the people taking the SAC as they get all get a slice of the pie. The money from fines goes to, or certainly did, direct to central government so it's not the officer who stops you at the side of the road putting in a good word for you, it's simple economics, they want your money!

Funny how we manage just fine without them

 

[BMF]

Therein lies another important difference : in Scotland , thanks to our superior legal system , there have to be two officers for corroboration - you cannot be convicted on the evidence of a lone constable , who might , after all , be mistaken in what he thought he saw , particularly if he was having a 'bad day' .

I think that down here (south of the border) if an officer knows the distance between 2 fixed points and has the means to time a vehicle over that distance then he doesn’t need the corroborative evidence of a fellow officer. I suppose I could have contested the FPN and had my day in court but if I were to lose then the resulting penalty would have been much worse. 3 points and a £60 fine for 94.85mph on a 70mph dual carriageway, I’ll take the FPN (I didn’t get an offer of DAC).

 

[E55BOF]

Strange how the tolerance is now set at a speed in excess of that deemed to be lethal in 80% of pedestrian collisions, well actually no not really as the Tory government announced a freeze on 'safety' camera spending in 2010. Given that there are a lot of people making a lot of money out of speed enforcement, companies like Road Safety Support, AA Drivetech and the likes, with the freezing of 'safety' camera spending the cash cow still needed feeding, not to mention a number of jobs within the ticket offices of police forces across the country.

So with their source of new revenue being cut off it didn't take them long to work out that if they raised the tolerance for speed awareness courses they could make up the shortfall, they rely on the people taking the SAC as they get all get a slice of the pie. The money from fines goes to, or certainly did, direct to central government so it's not the officer who stops you at the side of the road putting in a good word for you, it's simple economics, they want your money!

And your suggested alternative for speed limit enforcement is....?

 

[Ted]

So are we saying that a bike copper can’t do you for speeding in Scotland?

 

[gramey]

And your suggested alternative for speed limit enforcement is....?

It's not the technical aspect of enforcement that I have an issue with, it's the promotion of speed awareness courses for speeds that their own statistics show are fatal in 80% of cases, purely for the financial benefit of those with a vested interest.
How can you reconcile one with the other, 40 mph can kill but we'll give you a course at a speed in excess of what's considered dangerous because we'll make money out of it, that smacks of hypocrisy to me.
How much money are they making? - Police to net an extra £12 million from speed awareness courses

 

[gramey]

I think that down here (south of the border) if an officer knows the distance between 2 fixed points and has the means to time a vehicle over that distance then he doesn’t need the corroborative evidence of a fellow officer. I suppose I could have contested the FPN and had my day in court but if I were to lose then the resulting penalty would have been much worse. 3 points and a £60 fine for 94.85mph on a 70mph dual carriageway, I’ll take the FPN (I didn’t get an offer of DAC).

The device they use is their corroboration in England and Wales it's accepted that if the device is Home Office approved and has been calibrated and checked it is accurate, it's incumbent upon the accused to show that it's not if they wish to contest the speed
At 94 mph you were above the threshold for a SAC hence why you didn't get an offer.

 

[BMF]

The device they use is their corroboration in England and Wales it's accepted that if the device is Home Office approved and has been calibrated and checked it is accurate, it's incumbent upon the accused to show that it's not if they wish to contest the speed
At 94 mph you were above the threshold for a SAC hence why you didn't get an offer.

I was in full kiss ass mode that day I can tell you.

 

[zipdip]

Well the speed awareness course are a real money spinner for the people who run them and the police,all the money you pay goes to them if you take the points and fine then the government gets it.

 

[gramey]

Well the speed awareness course are a real money spinner for the people who run them and the police,all the money you pay goes to them if you take the points and fine then the government gets it.

Personally I would take the points and give the government my money rather than line the pockets of private companies promoting courses at speeds that are shown to be fatal, it is just my personal opinion but as I said to me it's blatant hypocrisy. Speed awareness courses were introduced to educate those travelling at excess speed, but at speeds that were considered unlikely to cause life threatening injuries. Suddenly all that goes by the board when they see their revenue drying up so where are their principles now, clearly lives have a price.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I'm in support of more police funding, why wouldn't I be?

 

[gramey]

I'm in support of more police funding, why wouldn't I be?

No issue with more funding for the police, I was a police officer for 30 years, but don't do it off the back of courses that make it acceptable to travel at speeds in built up areas that can prove fatal whilst also lining the pockets of private companies.

 

[Deletedmember130310]

Presumably these private companies can lose the money they make under the proceeds of crime legislation......

 

[Teego]

I was in full kiss ass mode that day I can tell you.

Kissass pays.
Two years ago in France on my bike.
Hooning down some amazing roads en-route to my brother's gaff near Nimes to see him before the Crab switched him off.
Miles and miles and miles of fun until I approached a village and slowed to50kph.
Blue light in the corner of my eye.
Pull in to layby. I knew I was going to be stuffed.
We both park up, I remove my helmet and face Le Gendarme.
"M'sieur" said I.
"M'sieur" said he after the psychological pause.
"Je suis desolee, M'sieur" knowing I'd been had and making an effort to respect his authority. If you don't respect a Gendarme's authority you're up shit creek already.
"Vous parlez Francais"
"Un peux"
"OK. I will speak English. What was the speed limit?"
"90km/h M'sieur"
"And your speed was?"
"Je suis desolee M'sieur........."
"I will tell you. Your speed was 145km/h".
"Desolee M'sieur".
Two minutes examining the bike and back for an eyeball. I thought this was going to be bloody expensive.
"M'sieur, you may go now. But if I ever catch you again I will take you motorcycle and you will walk back to England!"
"Oui M'sieur, Merci".

PS I was actually running at way over 160km/h before he timed me.

 

[BMF]

Kissass pays.
Two years ago in France on my bike.
Hooning down some amazing roads en-route to my brother's gaff near Nimes to see him before the Crab switched him off.
Miles and miles and miles of fun until I approached a village and slowed to50kph.
Blue light in the corner of my eye.
Pull in to layby. I knew I was going to be stuffed.
We both park up, I remove my helmet and face Le Gendarme.
"M'sieur" said I.
"M'sieur" said he after the psychological pause.
"Je suis desolee, M'sieur" knowing I'd been had and making an effort to respect his authority. If you don't respect a Gendarme's authority you're up shit creek already.
"Vous parlez Francais"
"Un peux"
"OK. I will speak English. What was the speed limit?"
"90km/h M'sieur"
"And your speed was?"
"Je suis desolee M'sieur........."
"I will tell you. Your speed was 145km/h".
"Desolee M'sieur".
Two minutes examining the bike and back for an eyeball. I thought this was going to be bloody expensive.
"M'sieur, you may go now. But if I ever catch you again I will take you motorcycle and you will walk back to England!"
"Oui M'sieur, Merci".

PS I was actually running at way over 160km/h before he timed me.

Multi-Linguistic ass kissing of the finest order.

 

[gramey]

Presumably these private companies can lose the money they make under the proceeds of crime legislation......

Unlikely as only a few road traffic offences are recordable as a crime.

 

[C240Sport97]

trying to speak local lingo always helps

 

[Teego]

trying to speak local lingo always helps

That's why it's probably easier to talk yourself out of trouble in French than Scouse.

 

[John N]

So are we saying that a bike copper can’t do you for speeding in Scotland?

I can't remember when I last saw a Bike Copper North of the Border on his/her own, they normally Hunt/Patrol in pairs!

 

[Deleted member 6183]

No issue with more funding for the police, I was a police officer for 30 years, but don't do it off the back of courses that make it acceptable to travel at speeds in built up areas that can prove fatal whilst also lining the pockets of private companies.

No issue with more funding for the police, I was a police officer for 30 years, but don't do it off the back of courses that make it acceptable to travel at speeds in built up areas that can prove fatal whilst also lining the pockets of private companies.

You can only do one course every 3 years.