Speed Awareness Course

[Deleted member 126251]

The road that runs from fthe Oatsheef pub crossroads at the end of the High Street out towards the Elvetham roundabout. Straight road with £1m plus houses all the way along. Police are there with speed guns quite regularly!

Reading Road North I think...

I used to live in Fleet (still have some friends there and one of them lives in one of those £1m+ houses) and that road was always a problem - people in big SUVs pulling out, frequent speed traps and folk travelling too fast (me included).

 

[zipdip]

Well I am sure it has changed by now but in Essex all the rotten police were put on bikes,I well remember one who had been caught selling stolen cars,he was doomed to ride that bike until he fell off from old age,he was some piece of work,no chance of a letting off from him.

 

[gramey]

You can only do one course every 3 years.

Yes, I'm fully aware of that as I spent 5 years working in the ticket office as a civilian after retiring from the police itself from 2010 - 2015 so I think I have a little idea of how it works.

 

[gramey]

Well I am sure it has changed by now but in Essex all the rotten police were put on bikes,I well remember one who had been caught selling stolen cars,he was doomed to ride that bike until he fell off from old age,he was some piece of work,no chance of a letting off from him.

How did he get away with that one as handling stolen goods is a criminal offence, immediate dismissal, loss of any pension etc. not to mention what a court would impose on a bent copper.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Yes, I'm fully aware of that as I spent 5 years working in the ticket office as a civilian after retiring from the police itself from 2010 - 2015 so I think I have a little idea of how it works.

It seems that you know everything.

 

[tbourner]

I quite liked my speed awareness course. Some interesting stuff.

 

[gramey]

It seems that you know everything.

Far from it but I do have a fair degree of background knowledge on this particular subject, but if sarcastic snipes make you feel better knock yourself out.

 

[BMF]

Far from it but I do have a fair degree of background knowledge on this particular subject, but if sarcastic snipes make you feel better knock yourself out.

I attracted a something similar the other week.

 

[gramey]

I quite liked my speed awareness course. Some interesting stuff.

A few people seem to have got the wrong idea, I'm not against speed enforcement or educational courses, my whole point is that when it suited them we were being told that in 80% of collisions involving a pedestrian, travelling at 40 mph it was likely to be fatal. Then when it suited them they decided that rather than enforce at potentially fatal speeds they would offer an educational course and that decision was based on economics not road safety.
You can't blame people for taking the course to avoid the points, and yes there's some interesting stuff.

 

[BTB 500]

we were being told that in 80% of collisions involving a pedestrian, travelling at 40 mph it was likely to be fatal. Then when it suited them they decided that rather than enforce at potentially fatal speeds they would offer an educational course and that decision was based on economics not road safety.

Doing 40 in a built up area with parked cars and pedestrians (including kids) around is obviously not sensible or clever. But it doesn't follow that the same behaviour is equally dangerous on all roads with a 30 limit. There's a fixed camera near me (on a busy A road) that records a HUGE number of offences per year - over 19,000 in 2017 - without there ever having been a fatality or even serious injury on that stretch of road. In fact over a 5 year period the average was only 3 accidents per year - all recorded as 'slight'. So while exceeding the 30 limit is still potentially fatal (and illegal of course), a huge number of people regularly doing so there over a long period of time doesn't appear to have had any significant impact on road safety.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

There's a camera near here, it makes sense to slow cars down as there is a big car park one side and a seaside lido on the other so many children crossing the road on sunny Summer days.

I saw someone get flashed at 8pm the other night.

 

[BMF]

In a former life when I lived and worked in south west London we were instructed

Doing 40 in a built up area with parked cars and pedestrians (including kids) around is obviously not sensible or clever. But it doesn't follow that the same behaviour is equally dangerous on all roads with a 30 limit. There's a fixed camera near me (on a busy A road) that records a HUGE number of offences per year - over 19,000 in 2017 - without there ever having been a fatality or even serious injury on that stretch of road. In fact over a 5 year period the average was only 3 accidents per year - all recorded as 'slight'. So while exceeding the 30 limit is still potentially fatal (and illegal of course), a huge number of people regularly doing so there over a long period of time doesn't appear to have had any significant impact on road safety.

I was of the understanding that when they calculate the accident rate for any given stretch of road they include ALL accidents and this can include incidents where Police, Fire and Ambulance services are required at the scene of an accident be it an RTA or pedestrian tripping over their own feet resulting in any of the emergency services being required, it becomes an accident blackspot.

 

[gramey]

Doing 40 in a built up area with parked cars and pedestrians (including kids) around is obviously not sensible or clever. But it doesn't follow that the same behaviour is equally dangerous on all roads with a 30 limit. There's a fixed camera near me (on a busy A road) that records a HUGE number of offences per year - over 19,000 in 2017 - without there ever having been a fatality or even serious injury on that stretch of road. In fact over a 5 year period the average was only 3 accidents per year - all recorded as 'slight'. So while exceeding the 30 limit is still potentially fatal (and illegal of course), a huge number of people regularly doing so there over a long period of time doesn't appear to have had any significant impact on road safety.

I'm not saying 40 - 42 mph in every 30 mph limit is dangerous, we have some completely nonsensical 30 mph speed limits in rural areas.

 

[zipdip]

I make gramey right,the powers to be do change the rules when it suits them,apart from these Speed awareness courses instead of points and a fine,you have people now able to park on bridges,I pass a few with old vans on them advertising cafes and garages,now it used to be illegal until the police lost some cases because they were parked illegally on bridges,and then we get the speed camera vans,when they came out they were only allowed to be at places where a serious accident had occurred that lasted a few months and then it was where any accident had happened,and then it was changed to they could set up shop anywhere they liked,all these changes were driven by the need to earn more money,and in Essex every person manning a van is a policeman a double whammy.

 

[gramey]

In a former life when I lived and worked in south west London we were instructed


I was of the understanding that when they calculate the accident rate for any given stretch of road they include ALL accidents and this can include incidents where Police, Fire and Ambulance services are required at the scene of an accident be it an RTA or pedestrian tripping over their own feet resulting in any of the emergency services being required, it becomes an accident blackspot.

Fixed cameras to the best of my knowledge are sited according to the Stats 19 which forms part of the collision reports police complete when they attend an injury RTC as these are what the KSI (killed and seriously injured) stats are taken from by the Home Office. Although I don't know what stats they use for placing fixed and average speed cameras on motorways given that statistically they're the safest roads to travel on?
Presumably, as is the case with a junction on the A.12, there's a revenue opportunity as opposed to a large cost outlay, a survey showed the on slip (which had been built on the same side of the over bridge as the off slip to save money) was too short, causing a lot of minor injury or damage only collisions from tail end shunts due to people braking when drivers pulled out. Rather than spend money on relocating the slip to the other side of the over bridge they installed average speed cameras. Now it's even harder for people to join the A.12 due to traffic bunching, but accidents have reduced and despite the warning signs people still exceed the limit, mostly within the Speed Awareness Course range!
Mobile enforcement is usually carried out where speed data recorders show a high degree of non compliance with the limit, roadside enforcement is often conducted where residents have complained and a speed data recorder confirms there is an issue but either it's not sufficiently high to warrant a mobile camera van or geographically there's nowhere suitable to place it.
My apologies to Dr. Feelgood if that comes across as knowing everything, I don't, but of 15 years on roads policing I had 2 1/2 years as the dedicated speed enforcement officer and spent 5 years working in the central ticket office when I retired from the police so got to know a little about such things.

 

[abmunro]

When I did my 1st speed awareness there were 2 ladies on the same course, 1 lady was on the course for doing 32 mph in a 30 and another lady was caught doing 33 MPH in a 30 zone.

The instructor didnt believe either of them but both had a copy of their letters.

Yup, the guideline is FPN only from 43 mph (and a summons at 50 mph):

View attachment 83265

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/appref/ACPO-Speed-Enforcement-Guidance.pdf

 

[BTB 500]

When I did my 1st speed awareness there were 2 ladies on the same course, 1 lady was on the course for doing 32 mph in a 30 and another lady was caught doing 33 MPH in a 30 zone.

Yup you can get an FPN/SAC for even 1 mph over the limit, if you're unlucky.

 

[artyman]

Yup you can get an FPN/SAC for even 1 mph over the limit, if you're unlucky.

Whilst that is true, 1 or 2mph over that certainly smacks of a cash raising ethos rather than road safety.

 

[219]

So are we saying that a bike copper can’t do you for speeding in Scotland?

They always patrol in pairs , or more .

 

[219]

I think that down here (south of the border) if an officer knows the distance between 2 fixed points and has the means to time a vehicle over that distance then he doesn’t need the corroborative evidence of a fellow officer. I suppose I could have contested the FPN and had my day in court but if I were to lose then the resulting penalty would have been much worse. 3 points and a £60 fine for 94.85mph on a 70mph dual carriageway, I’ll take the FPN (I didn’t get an offer of DAC).

One officer could misinterpret what his instruments displayed , or could just be plain lying for one reason or another .

Much less likely for either scenario with two officers present .