That didn't take long.....

[219]

Are you saying he now admits fault? If not, then you will be on dodgy ground re an insurance claim.

They will see it like this:

You are passing parked cars and he has right of way.
There are no independent witnesses (will disregard your girlfriend).
You word versus his.

Claim will go against you and ruin next years premium.


My own case was this:

I was approaching a T-junction to turn right.

Guy turned right off the main road at speed, cutting the corner at 45 degrees and hit my front right corner.

No independent witnesses.

He verbally accepted fault at the scene, declined to write anything except his details and left.

He then claimed I had emerged from the junction without looking and hit him as he carefully turned in.

Insurers decided it was my fault....(you have no "say" - THEY decide).


Be careful....

This is a prime example of why I ALWAYS summon the police in cases like these - I have had three non-fault crashes down the years , each time with no witnesses at all , and each time I got the police to come out and take statements : that way the other party cannot change his story afterwards . Once they tried to fob me off saying I didn't need them due to no injuries , but I insisted I required an attendance because there were no witnesses and I was afraid the other driver might change his story - 10 minutes later , two cops on the scene .

In one case , which I mentioned recently on another thread , both the other driver and I were breathalysed as a matter of routine : the other driver failed and was arrested on the spot - 'slam , dunk ' as far as my insurance claim was concerned ! It hadn't even occurred to me that the other driver might have been drunk , but he was .

Going by the 'aggressive manner' of the OP's other driver , and the fact it was probably first day back at work after new year , perhaps he might have imbibed more than he ought to have the night before ? Sadly , we'll never know now .

 

[lynall]

Ive had a few minor hits in my time and if i am honest at least half were my fault but in nearly all cases i elected to walk away, no claim, no insurance companies involved no hassle and no increase on premiums next year.

As a new driver i would be doing the same, principles are great but when they start costing you money!

Google smartwitness for next time.


Lynall

 

[BTB 500]

Ive had a few minor hits in my time and if i am honest at least half were my fault but in nearly all cases i elected to walk away, no claim, no insurance companies involved no hassle and no increase on premiums next year.

Aren't you supposed to declare all accidents, even if there hasn't been a claim?

 

[whitenemesis]

You were overtaking parked cars on your side of the road, on a long left-hand bend and the van hit your rear quarter and rear bumper...

It would appear you were pulling into the left as the van passed and hit you. You didn't hit any parked cars?

Reads as though you were quite a way over onto the otherside of the road. On a blind bend.

 

[whitenemesis]

Aren't you supposed to declare all accidents, even if there hasn't been a claim?

Yes!

 

[219]

Sadly this will affect your premium next year - the declaration is whether you have been claim and accident free. As others have indicated, there are stats that show that someone who has been involved in an accident (even no-fault) is more likely to be involved with another.

The logic, is that at the extreme there are no (or very very few) true 'accidents', and that in the vast majority of cases a driver could at least theoretically have taken avoiding action. I've had the odd prang myself over the years, but my self-analysis has always been to consider what I could have done to avoid it - so when I skidded (slowly!) on some ice about 5 years ago, even though the police assured me it was not my fault and there was nothing I could have done, I had to disagree - I could have gone (even) slower; I could have taken a different route; I could have stopped and checked the road surface before trying to make the manoeuvre; I could have stayed at home. You get the drift. So if I have a prang, I am not doing some/all of those things, and that will reflect in my general driving, with an increased likelihood of another prang.

One of my instructors on a defensive driving course once said to me that even a no-fault accident should be thought of as my fault. I even extend the logic to the time my merc was sideswiped by a delivery van whilst legally parked in a marked parking bay...what could I have done differently? Should I have anticipated a van coming down that road and parked elsewhere? The essence of defensive driving is not just to do what I am supposed to do but to anticipate all the wrong things that someone else might do.

Hmmm ,

I do appreciate what you are trying to say .

However my three non-fault collisions were as follows

1) Going straight ahead at a roundabout with three marked lanes on approach : left ; straight ahead ; right . I am in the centre lane going straight ahead ; the landscape gardening flatbed truck comes up the left turn only lane trying to go straight ahead and hits my nearside rear as I follow my lane round the roundabout - yes , I saw him in my nearside mirror before he hit , but I had traffic in front so could not accelerate , traffic to my right so could not swerve , had I braked he would have hit me harder/further along my nearside - so difficult to see what I could have done better/differently on that occasion - that was the guy who was breathalysed and arrested .

2) Waiting to join a roundabout at the bottom of a motorway exit slip road , behind two other cars in the single lane , my foot on brake so brake lights on . Mr Vectra comes down at excessive speed , brakes late : BANG . Not a lot I could do there either .

3) Waiting in a queue of traffic behind a car waiting to turn right ( Glasgow City Centre ) - white van man , chatting on his mobile phone , fails to see stopped traffic in front : BANG . As above .

These three were all about 10 -15 years ago ; I just remembered I had a FOURTH !

This would have been about 30 years ago - returning from college , I was approaching a right hand bend on a moderately busy A road . Over the top of the hedgerow , I could see the Artic approaching from the opposite direction ; as we both neared the apex of the bend , I was confronted by a Capri overtaking the truck , coming straight towards me on my side of the road , leaving me nowhere to go : I braked off as much speed as I could ( originally doing 50-ish , at which speed I could safely negotiate the bend or stop for something stopped in front , but not for something coming towards me at least at the same speed as me ) , steered partly into the verge but could not avoid the collision . Other driver was drunk , no licence , no insurance , stolen car !!!

 

[219]

You were overtaking parked cars on your side of the road, on a long left-hand bend and the van hit your rear quarter and rear bumper...

It would appear you were pulling into the left as the van passed and hit you. You didn't hit any parked cars?

Reads as though you were quite a way over onto the otherside of the road. On a blind bend.

Fair comment , but you are supposed to leave sufficient room for a door to be opened when passing parked cars - this would normally be interpreted as roughly 3 feet , more if possible - and on sighting the van the OP could merely have tried to move over a little to make more room - nothing wrong in that .

Assuming he was passing parked cars before other vehicle came into sight , then no wrongdoing I can see .

 

[whitenemesis]

Hmmm ,

I do appreciate what you are trying to say .

However my three non-fault collisions were as follows

1) Going straight ahead at a roundabout with three marked lanes on approach : left ; straight ahead ; right . I am in the centre lane going straight ahead ; the landscape gardening flatbed truck comes up the left turn only lane trying to go straight ahead and hits my nearside rear as I follow my lane round the roundabout - yes , I saw him in my nearside mirror before he hit , but I had traffic in front so could not accelerate , traffic to my right so could not swerve , had I braked he would have hit me harder/further along my nearside - so difficult to see what I could have done better/differently on that occasion - that was the guy who was breathalysed and arrested .

2) Waiting to join a roundabout at the bottom of a motorway exit slip road , behind two other cars in the single lane , my foot on brake so brake lights on . Mr Vectra comes down at excessive speed , brakes late : BANG . Not a lot I could do there either .

3) Waiting in a queue of traffic behind a car waiting to turn right ( Glasgow City Centre ) - white van man , chatting on his mobile phone , fails to see stopped traffic in front : BANG . As above .

These three were all about 10 -15 years ago ; I just remembered I had a FOURTH !

This would have been about 30 years ago - returning from college , I was approaching a right hand bend on a moderately busy A road . Over the top of the hedgerow , I could see the Artic approaching from the opposite direction ; as we both neared the apex of the bend , I was confronted by a Capri overtaking the truck , coming straight towards me on my side of the road , leaving me nowhere to go : I braked off as much speed as I could ( originally doing 50-ish , at which speed I could safely negotiate the bend or stop for something stopped in front , but not for something coming towards me at least at the same speed as me ) , steered partly into the verge but could not avoid the collision . Other driver was drunk , no licence , no insurance , stolen car !!!

How did you premium fair after each of these incidents?

 

[219]

I don't remember it going up any , although the first one involved my 280TE , which was processed through my insurer ( Highway IIRC ) and the subsequent two involved my 300TE ( which I had for only a week before the Vecrta rear-ended me ) , the subsequent two drivers were both with Direct Line who in each case phoned me within the hour admitting liability and offering to pay for everything and no need to claim on my own insurance . I still notified my insurers of the incident , although not making a claim . Insurance ( fully comp ) on these cars was something like £200 - £220 over the 10 years + I ran them , after my NCD was applied .

 

[HR17]

the manager said its company policy to go through the insurer, on the other hand cos the damage is only minor when he sees it he might prefer not to, i was actually more annoyed with the drivers attitude than the damage! he was going too fast, he was dangerous, he caused damage to my car, and then he starts behaving in a threatening manner!
is it wrong of me that i want him sacked?
dangerous, aggressive, swearing infront of ladies! being rude to my disabled mum!

I always complain as far as I can when someone in a marked company vehicle pi55es me off. I see loads of dangerous and/or aggressive driving by people in vans and trucks. I always take their reg and number if I can, or at least look them up and make a complaint - by phone and/or writing. Apart from making me feel better, maybe the guilty party will get a telling off, and perhaps take heed.

Its a bit daft behaving badly in your works vehicle when your employers name and number are on the aide of it!

 

[Dryce]

Should I have anticipated a van coming down that road and parked elsewhere?

No. Because the Top Gear piano will then find you.

 

[mekon]

You were overtaking parked cars on your side of the road, on a long left-hand bend and the van hit your rear quarter and rear bumper...

It would appear you were pulling into the left as the van passed and hit you. You didn't hit any parked cars?

Reads as though you were quite a way over onto the otherside of the road. On a blind bend.

i was not millimetres away from the parked cars no, i was allowing myself room, the over riding fact is he was going too fast to accurately control his vehicle, it was a continuous string of cars not a single one, if he didnt think there was enough space to pass he should of used those wonderful inventions called BRAKES to slow down or even stop! if necessary i could of reversed to let him pass as he had right of way however the bend of the road meant that i could not see any oncoming traffic until it had started to pass the vehicles hence i approached slowly, does common sense not dictate that when passing parked vehicles on either side of the road you should slow down? HAZARD PERCEPTION anyone???

rough diagram, silver is me, green is lorry, red is the cars, as you can see the view is obstructed by the bend of the road given the parked cars.

 

[nick mercedes]

i was not millimetres away from the parked cars no, i was allowing myself room, the over riding fact is he was going too fast to accurately control his vehicle, it was a continuous string of cars not a single one, if he didnt think there was enough space to pass he should of used those wonderful inventions called BRAKES to slow down or even stop!

So to summerise, you crossed over on to the other side of the road to go around some parked cars, took it a bit wide and hit a lorry coming the other way?

And it's the lorry drivers fault?

Was there much damage to the lorry?

Will some sweet talking make them forget about it?

Otherwise your insurance costs will go into orbit.

 

[mekon]

no, i was a perfectly acceptable distance from the parked cars and slowed to ease the passing, he was going too fast, did NOT slow down and clipped my rear end, the only reason he passed more cars than I had is because i was taking it easy, parked cars mean pedestrians and passengers opening doors without looking, he was going significantly faster than I was, I passed about 3 or 4 cars before he was visible to me.

the diagram is just to indicate where the cars where parked and concealing the oncoming traffic.
as you can see there is no white line to indicate the centre of the road.

 

[mekon]

am i old fasioned then that i only drive as fast as i can see? in other words i dont travel faster than i can see to stop in, if theres a person lying in the middle of the road around the bend i want to be able to stop!

 

[Beetnik]

With no independent witnesses, the parked cars on your side of the road and whatever the actual position of the two vehicles involved in the incident then without an admission of guilt from the third party the only interpretation I can see an insurance company making is that you were more than 50% responsible for the incident - i.e. that you were more likely to be on his side of the road than he on yours.

I'd think very carefully before making an insurance claim.

 

[nick mercedes]

no, i was a perfectly acceptable distance from the parked cars and slowed to ease the passing, he was going too fast, did NOT slow down and clipped my rear end, the only reason he passed more cars than I had is because i was taking it easy, parked cars mean pedestrians and passengers opening doors without looking, he was going significantly faster than I was, I passed about 3 or 4 cars before he was visible to me.

It does not really matter how fast he was going, if you pulled out on to his side of the road to pass parked cars, the accident is down to you.

Given your already apparantly high insurance costs, as others here have said, I'd reconsider trying to claim.

 

[Mr E]

I don't want to mislead the OP or anyone else, but I thought the following was correct (and I've not bothered to check these out...):

• 
  There is no concept in law of "right of way" unless directed by signage;

• Driving on the left-hand side of the road is a convention, not a law (sounds dodgy, this one) which is why driving on the wrong side of the road is "dangerous driving" or similar and not "driving on the wrong side of the road";

• WRT the first point, if there are no road markings then there is no his/your side of the road.

Let's extend the OP's scenario a little further - you are driving past a row of parked cars (overtaking) having checked that the road ahead is clear. As you approach the end of the row of parked cars (perhaps 4 or 5 to go) another vehicle comes out of a drive / slide road and turns toward you and carries on driving. You collide, breaking mirrors, swapping paint, etc.

Who is to blame, and why?

 

[Will]

I hate to say it, and I'm one for advocating/supporting members of the forum where possible - but looking at this as an unbiased observer - we have:-

The OP who is a very new driver (less than a month's experience since passing his test, less than two days of driving in his car?)

The lorry driver who is a professional driver - ie, drives for a living - no doubt with many year experience and thousands of miles under his belt.

If I'm honest, as an ex-biker from when I was younger, one of the biggest differences I found that I had to adjust to from riding a narrow bike to driving cars was the spacial awareness. Ie, when passing stuff you have about 4-5ft on your NS that you have to think carefully about when moving out. Maybe in the beginning it's hard to judge due to lack of experience, so you'd end up being a little further out than most people tend to be.

I am sorry to say that in view of this it's quite likely that the road positioning aspect could be the main cause of this accident. I'm sure if we're all honest, our money would be one the OP being more likely to be 'at fault' than the lorry driver, who was probably just driving on his side of the road.

I know that's probably not the popular view, but statistically and in view of the facts is probably the most likely scenario.

And one thing is for certain - we all learn from our mistakes. I'm sure most of us have had at least one prang of some kind when we were new/inexperienced drivers - it's all part of the learning curve and almost entirely the reason why new drivers pay a lot more for their insurance premiums.

Will

 

[w124coupe]

Switch it the other way round - why would the lorry's insurance company accept 100% liability in this situation?

no independent witnesses
no police attendance
no admission or statement from the other driver


Best you can hope for is what some people call 50/50 - i.e. each insurer pays its own costs (and you lose your excess and have a fault claim logged against you).

Hard to see how a claim can fail to drive premiums right up.

(is the area covered by CCTV? If so, call the Police now and accuse the other driver of driving toofast/without due care - that will make them access and use the CCTV footage - do this only IF you are certain of your facts or they might decide to prosecute you instead! Note that you cannot access this footage yourself.)