The EV fact thread

[Dryce]

Isn’t this thread going through the phase of people trying to convince others that things won’t work in theory, when they already are in practice?

It's a bidirectional thing.

80 miles is more than sufficient - or too little.

The reality I think is that we buy cars because they are convenient and we are willing to pay for them on that basis. 80 miles might be convenient for a high % of journeys - trouble is that it's the small % of journeys where 80 miles isn't enough that kills the convenience - so kills the point of paying so much for private vehicle.

Also - a lot of people live in urban areas - but for those who don't then the parameters for the decision are different.

And then we have those who have driveways to charge on vs those who don't.

So 'working in practice' is what exactly? Against the convenience and lifestyle factors that drive private vehicle purchases and the premium we pay for them ? It's not the only factor. The car might be used mainly within a given short radius of the owner's home - but just a few times a year when it used for longer trips means the range beyond that perimeter starts to become an important factor of ownership.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Isn’t this thread going through the phase of people trying to convince others that things won’t work in theory, when they already are in practice?

Not really, it's people who are afraid of something that they've never actually tried, voicing those concerns

and being told by people who've actually done it, that they're worrying about something that doesn't happen.

From EV's catching fire on every street, to motorways blocked with EV's with flat batteries

it's an entertaining debate but like the transition from Steam to electric trains, it's all happening regardless

(But trust me: British electric trains really don't run any faster than Steam did back in 1970)

 

[Dryce]

(But trust me: British electric trains really don't run any faster than Steam did back in 1970)

Poignantly - it's likely that EV speeds in terms of many journey times are likely to be slower than the 1980s and early 1990s. More speed limits, more speed limit enforcement, more route restrictions, more signalling, more congestion.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Not really, it's people who are afraid of something that they've never actually tried, voicing those concerns

and being told by people who've actually done it, that they're worrying about something that doesn't happen.

From EV's catching fire on every street, to motorways blocked with EV's with flat batteries

it's an entertaining debate but like the transition from Steam to electric trains, it's all happening regardless

(But trust me: British electric trains really don't run any faster than Steam did back in 1970)


View attachment 166738

Is that Baker Street Tube?

 

[BTB 500]

Seriously?

You cannot be comparing toys to EV infrastructure and car design.

If only people who have personally designed an EV or built a national power grid are qualified to post here then it's going to get pretty quiet.

Here's a picture of a 'toy' developed and built by me and used for professional aerial photography 12 years ago:



Powered by AC brushless motors with electronic speed controllers ... like an EV (except it has six of them). Lithium battery packs with real-time data logging at individual cell level, automated status monitoring and alarms, display screens ... like an EV. The battery packs are big enough to burn your house down in the event of a problem ... like an EV. Lots of other functionality like a 22 channel live telemetry data downlink, a live video downlink, on-board GPS, some basic autonomous flight modes, etc. Perhaps a good example of an "educational toy"? Speaking of education I have A levels in physics (which includes a fair bit of electrical theory), maths and chemistry if that helps. And over 40 years working on system/service design, development and support in commercial IT. And I generate power and export to the grid (only on a small scale, but better than nothing).

There's no way I would claim to be an expert on EVs. And of course there are other members here with much higher educational and professional qualifications in individual areas. But I think I have a reasonable all-round understanding of the basics, plus a decent amount of related practical experience.

 

[BTB 500]

I suspect that the aforesaid daughter would say that she's been gaslit into

avoiding paying £7 for a 40 mile round trip,

and nudged her parents into paying £1.20 for electricity instead.

£7 in your pocket is £7 in your pocket.

£7 for 40 miles is a bit steep. It would cost about £4 in our ICE city car, and that's 16 years old so unlikely to be the most efficient thing on the road. But £4 in your pocket is still a good outcome, although I suspect the parents put fuel in the car as well as paying the leccy bill?

 

[BIGDOG]

If only people who have personally designed an EV or built a national power grid are qualified to post here then it's going to get pretty quiet.

Here's a picture of a 'toy' developed and built by me and used for professional aerial photography 12 years ago:

View attachment 166737

Powered by AC brushless motors with electronic speed controllers ... like an EV (except it has six of them). Lithium battery packs with real-time data logging at individual cell level, automated status monitoring and alarms, display screens ... like an EV. The battery packs are big enough to burn your house down in the event of a problem ... like an EV. Lots of other functionality like a 22 channel live telemetry data downlink, a live video downlink, on-board GPS, some basic autonomous flight modes, etc. Perhaps a good example of an "educational toy"? Speaking of education I have A levels in physics (which includes a fair bit of electrical theory), maths and chemistry if that helps. And over 40 years working on system/service design, development and support in commercial IT. And I generate power and export to the grid (only on a small scale, but better than nothing).

There's no way I would claim to be an expert on EVs. And of course there are other members here with much higher educational and professional qualifications in individual areas. But I think I have a reasonable all-round understanding of the basics, plus a decent amount of related practical experience.

Fair enough.

I still find your posts on this thread biased and self centered but I cannot argue that you don't know anything about electronics.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Poignantly - it's likely that EV speeds in terms of many journey times are likely to be slower than the 1980s and early 1990s. More speed limits, more speed limit enforcement, more route restrictions, more signalling, more congestion.

Exactly, it's nothing to do with the underlying tech, it's the infrastructure.

Every time I do a longer journey, I shake my head at how slow people drive compared to even 20 years ago. (And these are not EV drivers)

You just don't see people doing 100 on the motorway any more, or accelerating up to 70 on Park Lane on the way home after work mid-week.

Not that I ever did that kind of thing.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Is that Baker Street Tube?

Yep. Not my photo, although I was there on the day in 2012.

Celebrating 150 years of the Metropolitan line into Farringdon

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[MikeInWimbledon]

£7 for 40 miles is a bit steep. It would cost about £4 in our ICE city car, and that's 16 years old so unlikely to be the most efficient thing on the road. But £4 in your pocket is still a good outcome, although I suspect the parents put fuel in the car as well as paying the leccy bill?

Italian cars: they're rubbish.

Urban mpg for a new-ish FIAT 500 is 40mpg

Fiat 500 MPG - Actual MPG from 1,047 Fiat 500 owners

The most accurate Fiat 500 MPG estimates based on real world results of 16.6 million miles driven in 1,047 Fiat 500s

www.fuelly.com

But fair point: it's the parents who are saving £6 by her driving the EV for 40 miles, not the young 'un. Call it £600 a year for 4,000 miles a year

As well as saving that grand a year on servicing and road tax


.

 

[ChipChop]

80 miles is more than acceptable to very many drivers. That's 29200 miles a year at 80 per day. Who does that? If she regularly did more miles in a day then she would have bought something else. Horses for courses. I do more than 80 miles quite often.....but rarely more than 150......so a 200 mile range EV would be fine for me and apart from a few times Im away from home Id only ever charge on the drive or when I go longer distance....certainly would be no trouble for me....same as an 80 mile range would be no issue for probably 50% plus of the population.

I am assuming the smaller battery model Fiat 500e 80 mile range in winter is from a 100% charged battery. A SOC EV owners rarely charge to. The range at 80% SOC logically would be 64 miles. I can cycle farther that that on a Sunday ride out.

 

[190]

Italian cars: they're rubbish.

Urban mpg for a new-ish FIAT 500 is 40mpg

Fiat 500 MPG - Actual MPG from 1,047 Fiat 500 owners

The most accurate Fiat 500 MPG estimates based on real world results of 16.6 million miles driven in 1,047 Fiat 500s

www.fuelly.com

But fair point: it's the parents who are saving £6 by her driving the EV for 40 miles, not the young 'un. Call it £600 a year for 4,000 miles a year

As well as saving that grand a year on servicing and road tax


.

Before anyone looks at the linked website and says the Fiat 500 mpg is very poor for such a small car then note it defaults to US mpg. Switched to UK mpg it's better but frankly not impressive. My w204 has a higher average over 10 years.

 

[BTB 500]

As well as saving that grand a year on servicing and road tax

Road tax is currently only £20 on small ULEZ exempt petrol cars, but I don't know how that will change from ?March (when EVs start paying road tax of course).

 

[Will]

If only people who have personally designed an EV or built a national power grid are qualified to post here then it's going to get pretty quiet.

Here's a picture of a 'toy' developed and built by me and used for professional aerial photography 12 years ago:

View attachment 166737

Powered by AC brushless motors with electronic speed controllers ... like an EV (except it has six of them). Lithium battery packs with real-time data logging at individual cell level, automated status monitoring and alarms, display screens ... like an EV. The battery packs are big enough to burn your house down in the event of a problem ... like an EV. Lots of other functionality like a 22 channel live telemetry data downlink, a live video downlink, on-board GPS, some basic autonomous flight modes, etc. Perhaps a good example of an "educational toy"? Speaking of education I have A levels in physics (which includes a fair bit of electrical theory), maths and chemistry if that helps. And over 40 years working on system/service design, development and support in commercial IT. And I generate power and export to the grid (only on a small scale, but better than nothing).

There's no way I would claim to be an expert on EVs. And of course there are other members here with much higher educational and professional qualifications in individual areas. But I think I have a reasonable all-round understanding of the basics, plus a decent amount of related practical experience.

And you are still yet to even drive a single EV?

 

[ALFAitalia]

£7 for 40 miles is a bit steep. It would cost about £4 in our ICE city car, and that's 16 years old so unlikely to be the most efficient thing on the road. But £4 in your pocket is still a good outcome, although I suspect the parents put fuel in the car as well as paying the leccy bill?

At todays price (at the garage over the road!) and my average commuting economy of about 35 mpg it would cost me £7.41 to do 40 miles. ....For comparison it would cost my neighbour (in his home charged at 7p per KW EV Pug 308e) about 80p!....BIG difference.

 

[BTB 500]

I am assuming the smaller battery model Fiat 500e 80 mile range in winter is from a 100% charged battery. A SOC EV owners rarely charge to. The range at 80% SOC logically would be 64 miles. I can cycle farther that that on a Sunday ride out.

EV Database gives a worst case of 85 miles for city driving in cold weather (using heating), from 100% charge to zero. So if you were at 80% and discharged to 10% that would be 60 miles. Less at higher speeds of course.

60 miles would be OK on a car like that most of the time. Stopping every 42 miles on the motorway for a 10-80% top up would be a pain though.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Anyone using the motorways on a regular basis would probably have bought something else. My wife could use a car with a 40 mile range without issue!.....can remember the last time she drove further than Chichester from Bognor!!!

 

[BIGDOG]

And you are still yet to even drive a single EV?

I'm reminded of the political thread.

Everyone has long-held views (mainly negative) and are not likely to change them at any time, lots of Googling to find data to support these views and prove themselves to be correct.

 

[Bellow]

Re earlier discussion on ICE efficiency in cold weather. It actually improves - significantly.
Take Autocar's finding that at 70mph, 19% of the total energy used is for HVAC read: heating. With ICE, say the engine efficiency for motive power is 30%. 19% of that is 5.7%. Efficiency is what we get out divided by what we put in. Therefor we are improving ICE efficiency by 5.7%.

 

[Bellow]

I'm reminded of the political thread.

Everyone has long-held views (mainly negative) and are not likely to change them at any time, lots of Googling to find data to support these views and prove themselves to be correct.

I thought this thread was about EVs. Not ad hominem attacks on posters - noticeably from the ardently pro-EV pile drivers.