The EV fact thread

[whitenemesis]

My 'EV-related anecdotal observation hand grenade dejour': I've been on holiday for a while in rural France: After 500 miles* of about 400 miles of N and D road use and about 100 miles of autoroute, I have only noticed a literal handful of electric cars and no chargers (though I didn't stop on the autoroute, just at local interesting spots along the scenic roads). So, I'm not sure the average Frenchie buys into the ev dream yet. Or if they do it's Autoroute-only driving for them, presumably.

*A calculated 42 mpg on a om642 v6 (car obc said 46 mpg)

Totally opposite experience for me in Austria, where EVs were in abundance, everywhere from villages to towns and city even going up and down the Alpine passes!
There were plenty of charge stations, this one (temporarily closed for repainting!) at the top of the Franz-Josefs-Höhe on the Grossglockner High Alpine Road


and a bit of "granny charging" at the rest stop part way up the pass

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My 'EV-related anecdotal observation hand grenade dejour': I've been on holiday for a while in rural France: After 500 miles* of about 400 miles of N and D road use and about 100 miles of autoroute, I have only noticed a literal handful of electric cars and no chargers (though I didn't stop on the autoroute, just at local interesting spots along the scenic roads). So, I'm not sure the average Frenchie buys into the ev dream yet. Or if they do it's Autoroute-only driving for them, presumably.

*A calculated 42 mpg on a om642 v6 (car obc said 46 mpg)

You’ve nailed it. Electric Zoe’s, Citroens and Renaults are all over rural France but they drink from the home pump. The French are way to tight fisted to pay commercial charging rates on the road.

And then, of course, they can also top up every time they go to Carrefour or their favourite local zhypermarket where they can either top up for free on their carte de fidélite or at a cheap commercial rate.

Tight wads, the French

 

[markjay]

...And then, of course, they can also top up every time they go to Carrefour or their favourite local zhypermarket where they can either top up for free on their carte de fidélite or at a cheap commercial rate...

One of the hotels in France along the route had a couple of slow chargers, but it was adjacent to a Carrefoure and indeed we used their fast chargers.

 

[philnewmerc]

Off topic....but that's about my long drive MPG with the OM642....but usually the obc is not more than a mpg out either way...usually the overeading way of course!

Anyway...bot...

Last time I I was in the land of garlic, theft and baguettes I was shocked (see what I did there!!?) at how many EVs there were and how many charging stations and that was a couple of years back.... probably more now.

Totally opposite experience for me in Austria, where EVs were in abundance, everywhere from villages to towns and city even going up and down the Alpine passes!
There were plenty of charge stations, this one (temporarily closed for repainting!) at the top of the Franz-Josefs-Höhe on the Grossglockner High Alpine Road
View attachment 174589

and a bit of "granny charging" at the rest stop part way up the pass


View attachment 174591

The two examples given are closed chargers and a granny charger. Hardly confidence inspiring!

Maybe it depends where you are. I tend to avoid autoroutes unless in a real hurry ( I assume they would all have an abundance of chargers) because I like to explore the countryside and stop at more rustic places for refreshment (and so I'd be upset following an app that points me to the next plug socket and buger stop with all the other hypermilers). And in the countryside here I can assure you there are a miniscule number of EVs. It seems odd as old garlic breath generally has plenty of parking around his maison in which to plug in even if there are limited chargers out and about... I thought it'd suit the bien pensant. Maybe the Dacia Spring et al will change that.

Also, 30 kmh zones are rife. And before anyone chokes on their baguette i think 20 mph / 30 kph in tight residential streets is plenty imho.

(Btw the C350cdi has been such a good steed all its annoying foibles have been forgiven!)

 

[philnewmerc]

You’ve nailed it. Electric Zoe’s, Citroens and Renaults are all over rural France but they drink from the home pump. The French are way to tight fisted to pay commercial charging rates on the road.

And then, of course, they can also top up every time they go to Carrefour or their favourite local zhypermarket where they can either top up for free on their carte de fidélite or at a cheap commercial rate.

Tight wads, the French

Well that's what I thought but they're not

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Here's the Carrefour system

Carrefour Énergies now has 100 electric vehicle charging stations in France

www.carrefour.com

If the 1,500,000 EV owners are away from home (or from the granny cable at work) , a glance at something like ABRP (A Better Route Planner) shows all the chargers around the route. In town squares, supermarkets, hotels and obviously....outside McDonalds. (Unbelievably there are more McDo's in France than any other country, except the USA)

ABRP

A Better Routeplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[whitenemesis]

The two examples given are closed chargers and a granny charger. Hardly confidence inspiring!

Only temporarily closed for painting the road markings (harsh environment) but both are good examples of how the Austrians have embraced EVs even on the steep passes.
Tesla aplenty and not just in white!

 

[markjay]

The two examples given are closed chargers and a granny charger. Hardly confidence inspiring!

Maybe it depends where you are. I tend to avoid autoroutes unless in a real hurry ( I assume they would all have an abundance of chargers) because I like to explore the countryside and stop at more rustic places for refreshment (and so I'd be upset following an app that points me to the next plug socket and buger stop with all the other hypermilers). And in the countryside here I can assure you there are a miniscule number of EVs. It seems odd as old garlic breath generally has plenty of parking around his maison in which to plug in even if there are limited chargers out and about... I thought it'd suit the bien pensant. Maybe the Dacia Spring et al will change that.

Also, 30 kmh zones are rife. And before anyone chokes on their baguette i think 20 mph / 30 kph in tight residential streets is plenty imho.

(Btw the C350cdi has been such a good steed all its annoying foibles have been forgiven!)

I am sure that there are plenty of chargers inside the towns along your scenic route, but as I said its not always obvious when you're on the road running along the countryside.

To satisfy you're curiosity, you can take the guesswork regarding where the chargers are hidden out of the equation by using ABRP - just put in any EV model and let it plot the route, it will show on the map where the French have chargers off the Autoroutes.

EDIT just saw MIW's post.

 

[philnewmerc]

I am sure that there are plenty of chargers inside the towns along your scenic route, but as I said its not always obvious when you're on the road running along the countryside.

To satisfy you're curiosity, you can take the guesswork regarding where the chargers are hidden out of the equation by using ABRP - just put in any EV model and let it plot the route, it will show on the map where the French have chargers off the Autoroutes.

EDIT just saw MIW's post.

I had a look at zapmap and they seem a lot cheaper than the UK so surprised to not see as many EVs here

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I had a look at zapmap and they seem a lot cheaper than the UK so surprised to not see as many EVs as here

It's about 1.5 million EV's in both France and the UK, but these are very different countries. Is your bit of rural France as wealthy as your bit of "rural" Hampshire, for example?

And then there's that old cliche: the Germans drive their wealth, the Italians wear their wealth, the French eat their wealth, and the British .... live in their wealth....

I don't have any stats on the subject, but broadly their cars - and their EV's - are cheaper and more.... disposable..than their British equivalents.

So it's Renaults, Peugeots, Citroens and FIAT's which aren't obviously "EV." (Unlike that well-known American "thing.")

 

[ALFAitalia]

Theft?

Autocorrect?

Nope....theiving is the French national sport! Pickpockets, camp site robbing, card skimming...... one of the worst places in the world for theft. I've been victim twice and had to give bloke a lift back from LeMans after his bike was nicked!

 

[SmartAmg]

Only temporarily closed for painting the road markings (harsh environment) but both are good examples of how the Austrians have embraced EVs even on the steep passes.
Tesla aplenty and not just in white!
View attachment 174595

Love the wheels.

 

[philnewmerc]

It's about 1.5 million EV's in both France and the UK, but these are very different countries. Is your bit of rural France as wealthy as your bit of "rural" Hampshire, for example?

And then there's that old cliche: the Germans drive their wealth, the Italians wear their wealth, the French eat their wealth, and the British .... live in their wealth....

I don't have any stats on the subject, but broadly their cars - and their EV's - are cheaper and more.... disposable..than their British equivalents.

So it's Renaults, Peugeots, Citroens and FIAT's which aren't obviously "EV." (Unlike that well-known American "thing.")



View attachment 174598

All valid points. The French are so patriotic in their car buying its almost comical, it is very impressive to see car parks full of cars that look so ugly/cheap... and yet new. No I still don't think I'm missing anything. I'm in a gite near a 20 mph road and when in the garden watching the cars go buy it is all small horrible-looking diesels covered in dents. I mean fair play to them, it is much more impressive than the Roast Beefs and their clean scratch-free German cars.

 

[philnewmerc]

It's about 1.5 million EV's in both France and the UK, but these are very different countries. Is your bit of rural France as wealthy as your bit of "rural" Hampshire, for example?

And then there's that old cliche: the Germans drive their wealth, the Italians wear their wealth, the French eat their wealth, and the British .... live in their wealth....

I don't have any stats on the subject, but broadly their cars - and their EV's - are cheaper and more.... disposable..than their British equivalents.

So it's Renaults, Peugeots, Citroens and FIAT's which aren't obviously "EV." (Unlike that well-known American "thing.")



View attachment 174598

Ok, decided to be (un)scientific and do a town square count: 28 cars*, 1 Ev, 2 mild hybrid. If that is scaled up (3% EVs) I think it is pretty representative of EV take-up actually, and is just going to take a few years for all the old XU diesels to die (perhaps a long time!). I suppose it was the same with little 2 stroke scooters, you just don't hear that annoying baaarrrrrb baaarrrrb anymore...

*25 were French! Never ceases to amaze me that. On the roads: very few German cars, or Teslas, virtually no JLR products.

 

[BTB 500]

Ok, decided to be (un)scientific and do a town square count: 28 cars*, 1 Ev, 2 mild hybrid. If that is scaled up (3% EVs) I think it is pretty representative of EV take-up actually, and is just going to take a few years for all the old XU diesels to die (perhaps a long time!).

Don't know about France but for the UK the latest data (to end of 2024) shows 3.7% of cars being BEV. So in the right ballpark

Then 6% hybrid (including plug-in), 32.1% diesel, and 58.2% petrol. 50% of cars on the road are over 10 years old, overall average age is 9.5 years.

 

[BIGDOG]

All valid points. The French are so patriotic in their car buying its almost comical, it is very impressive to see car parks full of cars that look so ugly/cheap... and yet new. No I still don't think I'm missing anything. I'm in a gite near a 20 mph road and when in the garden watching the cars go buy it is all small horrible-looking diesels covered in dents. I mean fair play to them, it is much more impressive than the Roast Beefs and their clean scratch-free German cars.

I do admire the French who drive those battered old shitters, I have done so myself in the past and it’s a very relaxing ownership proposal.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Don't know about France but for the UK the latest data (to end of 2024) shows 3.7% of cars being BEV. So in the right ballpark
Then 6% hybrid (including plug-in), 32.1% diesel, and 58.2% petrol. 50% of cars on the road are over 10 years old, overall average age is 9.5 years.

Exactly. About 1.5 million BEV's in both France and in the UK.

Albeit that the French BEVs are more likely to be "French BEV's," like the Peugeot e2008, that were bought for a lot less than the BEV's in the UK that were often bought via Company tax schemes.

France being five times bigger than England, means the rural areas are far poorer than our equivalents, so they need to be running those perfectly reliable ten year Renaults and Citroens.

 

[Will]

Don't know about France but for the UK the latest data (to end of 2024) shows 3.7% of cars being BEV. So in the right ballpark

Then 6% hybrid (including plug-in), 32.1% diesel, and 58.2% petrol. 50% of cars on the road are over 10 years old, overall average age is 9.5 years.

It would be interesting to compare how much use these varying categories of cars get.

I suspect most older cars get used less than newer ones, and likewise EVs are probably being used more regularly and for different types of journeys to say older petrol cars.

Statistics can be misleading - for the daily commute in the most populated areas I suspect those numbers don’t paint an accurate picture at all.

 

[BTB 500]

France being five times bigger than England, means the rural areas are far poorer than our equivalents, so they need to be running those perfectly reliable ten year Renaults and Citroens.

Our 16 year old Citroen has been incredibly reliable (touch wood), but it does have a Toyota engine

 

[BTB 500]

It would be interesting to compare how much use these varying categories of cars get.

I suspect most older cars get used less than newer ones, and likewise EVs are probably being used more regularly and for different types of journeys to say older petrol cars.

Statistics can be misleading - for the daily commute in the most populated areas I suspect those numbers don’t paint an accurate picture at all.

The SMMT's data is just a breakdown of currently taxed cars by fuel type / age / etc. so can't really be misleading or inaccurate. Annual mileage is something else - for sure there are older ICEs that do under the current average of 7,400 miles a year, but that will also be true of many EVs (particularly in multi-car households). No actual data on this though, AFAIK.