The EV fact thread

[SmartAmg]

Besides, the guy is a novice:

"The job was to survey the English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish coasts — a distance of some 4,800 miles — but since I had the entire month of May to complete the journey I set a maximum of 240 miles a day, leaving a minimum 53-mile safety buffer.."

Noooo, that's not how you are meant to plan a trip in an EV..... But hey, running out of juice and blaming it on the tech instead of on your refusal to understand how the car works, is much more fun

The article might have been written by a horse and carriage driver who's been given the keys to a petrol car for the fist time in his life and complains that there's not enough room for a bale of hay in the boot

And clearly, he's never heard of ABRP.

"That may sound overcautious..." No, it isn't overcautious, it's just a dumb thing to do in an EV.

But he discovers all this after setting off, as detailed later in the article. As the old saying goes: 'Measure twice cut once' - everything he 'discovered' while driving an EV could be learnt from a quick Google search. But hey....

I think that car manufacturers' press officers should not give EVs to journos unless they attend a compulsory 10 minute course called 'what you need to know about EVs before setting off in one'. It will save a lot of wasted column space.

Brilliant! Just about sums that review up.
And to be fair most of the negative reviews, they haven't got a clue.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Funny how all these EV problems appear on here....and so many of them. No one I know with an EV ever has any of these issues.........

Perhaps a possible pattern is that the source cited some posts is often a news reporter or social media “influencer” who are paid to generate clicks and comments. Articles, posts and videos about a straight forward run of the mill and uneventful journey don't generate much revenue.

 

[BTB 500]

The guy writing for the Times had been told by VW that he'd get a 5-80% charge in 30 minutes (given a fast enough charger, 150 kW or so), but in reality - for whatever reason - that didn't happen. Or is the consensus here that he made the whole thing up?

 

[markjay]

The guy writing for the Times had been told by VW that he'd get a 5-80% charge in 30 minutes (given a fast enough charger, 150 kW or so), but in reality - for whatever reason - that didn't happen. Or is the consensus here that he made the whole thing up?

Come on, even you know that what he did was stupid.

- You don't run an EV full-to-near-empty then charge it up. That just not how EVs are meant to be driven. Not if you have other options, anyway - which he did.

- You don't just leave without a plan then hope to find a charger when you have '53 miles left'.

- You don't rely blindly on the car to meet the WLTP figure 'on the mile' (just as you don't expect an ICE car to meet the exact mpg figures published by the manufacturer).

- You don't ignore the tech and avoid using a trip planner that manages the charging for you - most cars have it built-in, and if VW doesn't have it (which would surprise me), then you use ABRP or similar app. For heavens sake, this is 2025, we're talking about quantum computing and AI, and this journo doesn't know how to use a mobile phone app. Unbelievable.

- You don't rely blindly on charging at maximum speed under all conditions and on all circumstances. The Internet is full of info about this.

Now, which of the above is news to you? None, would be my guess. And if someone who claims to be a motoring journos doesn't know that, then he should find another job.

I got my first EV in 2021... I can't believe that 4 years on, people are still clueless about them. Which, apparently, doesn't stop them from writing about EVs...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

the consensus here that he made the whole thing up?

No not at all.

Did he knowingly make decisions which would likely lead to this type of outcome?

Almost certainly.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

EV fact: The Lotus Evija really has been delivered to customers.

 

[SpikyMikey]

The guy writing for the Times had been told by VW that he'd get a 5-80% charge in 30 minutes (given a fast enough charger, 150 kW or so), but in reality - for whatever reason - that didn't happen. Or is the consensus here that he made the whole thing up?

Dunno, but his description of Eastbourne was a tad harsh...

 

[BTB 500]

Dunno, but his description of Eastbourne was a tad harsh...

Sounded spot on to me - I used to work there!

 

[markjay]

Also.... this motoring journ tried driving the car based on the datasheet... and so I am surprised that he didn't complain that the 4,800-mile journey took longer than the 48.48 hours predicted by the car's top speed of 99mph...

Oh, but that bit is the same for both ICE cars and EVs, which is why this is one mistake that the journos didn't make.....

 

[BTB 500]

And if someone who claims to be a motoring journos doesn't know that, then he should find another job.

Agreed, except he doesn't claim to be a motoring journalist. It says in the article that he's a travel writer:

Come on, even you know that what he did was stupid.

Did he knowingly make decisions which would likely lead to this type of outcome?

Almost certainly.

Again, the main issue was excessive charging time ... not running out of power. Seems a reasonable assumption that if you turn up at a working ultra rapid charger you'll get ... an ultra rapid charge. But apparently not, and it seems unlikely to me that anything he did (intentionally or otherwise) caused this.

Only once in the 6(?) days he had it did he actually run low on power, and that was because he was expecting to be able to charge overnight at a camp site where he'd booked 240V hookup. I bet he's not the first inexperienced EV driver to make that mistake when 'destination charging' is frequently advocated.

 

[markjay]

Agreed, except he doesn't claim to be a motoring journalist. It says in the article that he's a travel writer:

View attachment 175330





Again, the main issue was excessive charging time ... not running out of power. Seems a reasonable assumption that if you turn up at a working ultra rapid charger you'll get ... an ultra rapid charge. But apparently not, and it seems unlikely to me that anything he did (intentionally or otherwise) caused this.

Only once in the 6(?) days he had it did he actually run low on power, and that was because he was expecting to be able to charge overnight at a camp site where he'd booked 240V hookup. I bet he's not the first inexperienced EV driver to make that mistake when 'destination charging' is frequently advocated.

When travelling through France, the average charging speed I experienced at Motorway services on the Autoroutes was around 170kW, and ranged between 150kW and 220kW (the last one is the car's maximum charging speed, and I've only experienced it on one occasion). This is based on the indication on the dash, so may not be 100% accurate.

The highest charging speed was usually reached within the first couple of minutes, though I was travelling in spring with an average ambient temperature of 20⁰C+.

The old IONIQ 5 did not have battery preconditioning, my new IONIQ 5 does, and so potentially I might now get better charging speeds right off the bat.

The new car's max charging speed is now 260kW, though I'm not sure when l might see this type of speed, maybe on my next trip to Europe.

I don't have much experience with fast charging in the UK, things might not be as good as they are in France and Switzerland, I don't know.

My Tesla owning friends tell me that the Tesla superchargers network works fine, but unfortunately it is not (yet) open for non-Tesla cars.

As for the 'travel writer'.... he might as well be driving a car equipped with sat nav and complain that he got lost because the A-Z atlas isn't up-to-date.

What he did makes no sense. Why would you not take 10 minutes to have a read online before embarking on a 4,800 mile journey in a vehicle that is using technology that you're unfamiliar with?

I know that no-one ever reads the owners manual, but jumping into an EV for the first time without understanding how EVs should be driven, then embarking on a trip around the island, is taking it to another level.

 

[BTB 500]

I don't have much experience with fast charging in the UK, things might not be as good as they are in France and Switzerland, I don't know.

VW's comments in the article seem to acknowledge some perceived shortcomings in the UK:

“We know public charging is still a concern for people who cannot charge at home or for the occasional particularly long journey on high days and holidays,” Volkswagen said. “We continue to work to develop partnerships to improve access to charging for our customers and urge government to support the development of a national, interoperable and affordable public charging network.”

As for the 'travel writer'.... he might as well be driving a car equipped with sat nav and complain that he got lost because the A-Z atlas isn't up-to-date.

What he did makes no sense. Why would you not take 10 minutes to have a read online before embarking on a 4,800 mile journey in a vehicle that is using technology that you're unfamiliar with?

I know that no-one ever reads the owners manual, but jumping into an EV for the first time without understanding how EVs should be driven, then embarking on a trip around the island, is taking it to another level.

Which specific issues did he have that were a result of being unfamiliar with the technology? From what I could see he did OK apart from spending *much* more time charging than expected. How should he have avoided that?

Seems that slow charging isn't unheard of elsewhere in the UK:

I’ve just noticed that the 120 kW charger at Waitrose also forecast a 3h charge time. Even if that is to charge to 100% rather than 80% then that’s still far too long.

 

[markjay]

Which specific issues did he have that were a result of being unfamiliar with the technology? From what I could see he did OK apart from spending *much* more time charging than expected. How should he have avoided that?

See my previous posts. To re-cap:

- Using the WLTP figure as if it was accurate down to the mile - see his comments about having '53 miles to spare' - and thinking that he was being overcautious(!). People have been talking about WLTP for about 5 years now - he clearly had no exposure to any online info relating to EVs. Or maybe he was just playing dumb?

- Expecting to have a single long run each day down to a nearly-depleted battery, and then charge it once a day - that's not how you're meant to drive an EV. Instead, you're meant to top up the battery to 80% along the route, leaving the 'single long run down to a nearly-depleted battery' as backup for unexpected eventualities, such a diversion due to Motorway closure, etc. *)

- Using back-of-an-envelope manual calculations to plan the trip, instead of using an EV trip planning app - either the car manufacturer's supplied one, or a third party app like ABRP - it will plan an optimal route including charging stops. This is 2025, for heaven’s sake, why ignore the available tech that is there to help you? It is almost as if he planned to fail.

- Expecting a 30 minutes charge time as standard - again, just read online what EV owners have been saying over the past few years. In fact, he seems to be suggesting that he was aware that the charging speed will vary based on a number of factors, and yet for some reason he was still expecting it to be 30 minutes. Sounds disingenuous to me.

*) You know a thing or two about aviation... right? Think of how our F35 or Typhoons refuel from a flying tanker on a long haul mission - they do not fly down to empty and then refuel Instead they hook up and top-up every hour or so.

 

[BTB 500]

See my previous posts. To re-cap:

- Using the WLTP figure as if it was accurate down to the mile - see his comments about having '53 miles to spare' - and thinking that he was being overcautious(!). People have been talking about WLTP for about 5 years now - he clearly had no exposure to any online info relating to EVs. Or maybe he was just playing dumb?

- Expecting to have a single long run each day down to a nearly-depleted battery, and then charge it once a day - that's not how you're meant to drive an EV. Instead, you're meant to top up the battery to 80% along the route, leaving the 'single long run down to a nearly-depleted battery' as backup for unexpected eventualities, such a diversion due to Motorway closure, etc. *)

- Using back-of-an-envelope manual calculations to plan the trip, instead of using an EV trip planning app - either the car manufacturer's supplied one, or a third party app like ABRP - it will plan an optimal route including charging stops. This is 2025, for heaven’s sake, why ignore the available tech that is there to help you? It is almost as if he planned to fail.

None of that actually caused him any problems though, so he clearly did maintain adequate reserves. He didn't run out of power, even when he wasn't able to charge overnight at the campsite and the nearest public charger was out of order. The 'fail' was that the ultra fast charging wasn't ultra fast ... which was nothing to do with how he had planned the trip or was driving the car. Presumably trip planning apps. also assume that en route charging is done at the rate specified for each site?

- Expecting a 30 minutes charge time as standard - again, just read online what EV owners have been saying over the past few years. In fact, he seems to be suggesting that he was aware that the charging speed will vary based on a number of factors, and yet for some reason he was still expecting it to be 30 minutes. Sounds disingenuous to me.

Slight variations in charge time due to temperature might well be expected, but taking five times times longer (or more) surely isn't. Charging isn't rocket science - if you avoid the >80% part of the curve the time taken to put a certain number of kWh into the battery just depends on the charging rate.

Think of how our F35 or Typhoons refuel from a flying tanker on a long haul mission - they do not fly down to empty and then refuel Instead they hook up and top-up every hour or so.

That'll be because the consequences of an aircraft running out of fuel mid-Atlantic are rather more serious than having to call the AA out because your EV is flat

 

[markjay]

That'll be because the consequences of an aircraft running out of fuel mid-Atlantic are rather more serious than having to call the AA out because your EV is flat

So calling the AA out because your EV is flat is now a trivial issue......?

 

[BTB 500]

I really really like the ID. BUZZ... I think it's brilliant. It was on my shortlist together with the Kia EV9 and the new IONIQ 5. The IONIQ 5 won...

My ex-next-door-neighbour, a non-dom who fled back to the US to escape the new rules, bought one in the US last year and can't praise it enough.

Reported today that VW have suspended sales of the ID.Buzz in the US. Allegedly due to a 'technical issue' with the rear seats, but thought to be linked to the 25% tariff now in force.

German auto giant Volkswagen said Thursday it had suspended deliveries of its electric minivan ID. Buzz due to a technical issue amid reports the decision was influenced by costly US tariffs on cars.

"No electric ID. Buzz models made in Hanover are currently being delivered to North America due to a technical recall mandated by US authorities," Tobias Riepe, a spokesman for Volkswagen's commercial vehicles division, told AFP.

The van's rear seats are "deemed too wide for the vehicle", Riepe said.

Citing company insiders, however, German business daily Handelsblatt reported the main reason was high tariffs imposed by US President Donald Trump.

Manufactured in Hanover, the ID. Buzz has since April been subject to a new US tariff of 25-percent on imported cars that are not largely made within North America.

That has made exporting the ID. Buzz into the United States untenable, according to Handelsblatt.

MSN

I was reading a few days ago that Buzzs in single-colour schemes were proving difficult to sell in the US, so VW have come up with a scheme to do a partial vinyl wrap on them to mimic the more popular two-colour schemes! Cost of this is $3,000.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Reported today that VW have suspended sales of the ID.Buzz in the US. Allegedly due to a 'technical issue' with the rear seats, but thought to be linked to the 25% tariff now in force.

MSN

I was reading a few days ago that Buzzs in single-colour schemes were proving difficult to sell in the US, so VW have come up with a scheme to do a partial vinyl wrap on them to mimic the more popular two-colour schemes! Cost of this is $3,000.

I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of ID Buzz I've seen.

 

[SmartAmg]

I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of ID Buzz I've seen.

Mmm, actually seen quite a few, Buzzin,
about.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Loads around here too....

 

[BTB 500]

I've seen a few Buzzs about.

In the UK they only sold 8400 in the first 2 years though (to end of Q4 2024), so they're not exactly common. If they had a hybrid version (or better still petrol ) I might be interested, although they're too small for us really. Cool looking vehicle though.