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The Grand Tour .......

Bryan Allman

Active Member
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Joined
Apr 19, 2008
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606
Location
San Lorenzo Nuovo - Lazio, Italy
Car
SLK55 (R172) 62.
Thinking about driving to Northern Italy in late Spring to revisit some sites and take in new ones.........

On the list of places to visit are Lake Como (Madam wants to see Clooneys old house) - Venice & Florence - possibly taking in Monza and maybe even pop down to Rimini (Tavulia) taking in a Pizza at VR46's place :)

So questions for the panel are:-

1. Any really good (driving) roads you would recommend once we reach the Alps and further south. (The blast down will be mainly Motorway)

2. Any favoured Villas/Hotels/Restaurants etc that are worth diverting to or staying at :)

All suggestions welcome

Cheers all
 
I started drafting a very similar thread starter last weekend. I would like to do a similar trip to catch the Mille Miglia and Monaco GP - consecutive weekends this year. I would add both to your trip.

Sadly a poor match for school holidays this year, so I won't be 2012 for us.
 
The route I had in mind was as follows with the numbers being the number of nights we stay:

Start
2 Stutgart
2 Prague via Afalterbach
1 Vienna
1 Budapest
2 Venice
1 Brescia
3 Rome
1 Pisa
2 Monaco
1 Cannes
1 Le Mans
3 Paris
End
 
Stayed in Stresa for a couple of nights last year on our 'grand tour' - lovely place.

The island is v. nice.
 
The route I had in mind was as follows with the numbers being the number of nights we stay:

Start
2 Stutgart
2 Prague via Afalterbach
1 Vienna
1 Budapest
2 Venice
1 Brescia
3 Rome
1 Pisa
2 Monaco
1 Cannes
1 Le Mans
3 Paris
End

Somewhere on there as Bormeo in and Davos, tackle COMO over to St Moritz, drive of my life

DSC01540.jpg
 
That'll give the steering rack a good workout :D

The shed was great, 3rd gear was all that was needed, got you to 70 between the bends, the surface smooth so my low profile tyres and sports suspension came to work, and I was taunting an MX5 all the way up.

Roads and drives like this make the "shed" worth owning.
 
I always stay at the metropole suisse in como. Right on the lake.
 
Personally I would give Pisa a miss. Very, very crowded and commercialised. I would suggest Lucca instead. Try to fit in Florence/Siena aswell somehow unless you have been before.
 
Ditto giving Pisa a miss - unless you really must see the tower or have a desire to be hassled by pushy street traders selling fake Rolex's and other tat.

If you do intend to take in Firenze / Siena, then this place in Castellina in Chianti is lovely and makes a great base. It's worth taking a bus from there to Firenze just for the ride through the Tuscan hills: the bus drivers are stereotypically Italian in their driving style which makes for a fun ride :D As well as Sienna, you're also close to Pogibonsi, San Gimignano and Volterra which are all worth a visit.

I'll dig out some details later of other hotels we've stayed in on the lakes and a few suggestions for roads to drive too.
 
I drove down from Milan to Rome via L'Aquila some years ago.
The road from Milan to Rimini is interesting only in the way that any nice road in another country is.
But the road over - I think it is called la grande Susse (sp?) from the coast to L'Aquila, and down to Rome is fantastic.

Cue Matt Monroe and 'On days like these'

Edit:
And don't forget - Italian drivers, especially in towns and cities are crazy. I mean REALLY crazy.

Edit edit: It's called the Gran Sasso :/
 
Last edited:
The Alpentourer - European Alpine Passes overview for motorbike travellers

When I last looked into something similar, I found the above site very useful, even though it is designed for our two wheeled friends.

As far as Italy goes, take care about city ZTL zones. If you are a foreign tourist, I belive that you can drive into a zone to get to a hotel and park there BUT the vehicle details must be notified to the authorities in order to avoid gifts to the city budget some months later. I would guess the hotel would be pleased to make the telephone call or show you what to do which, if it were me, I wouldresearch beforehand thoroughly.

And Venice doesn't do cars but has a massive car park at the end of the causeway entrance. Some hotels there might have limited on site parking. Again research beforehand is a must.

Some countries eg Switzerland require you to buy road tax or some other sticker to travel on roads or motorways. I suggest the AA foreign driving guidance.

Finally, I would research what the speed cameras look like in each country!
 
The driving really isnt that scary. Yes they do things differently to northern europe. They drive extemely close together on the autostrade but somehow it all seems to work out ok. It does get worse the further south you go. Even Rome is ok once you get used to it. Fuel in Italy is currently the most expensive in europe - around 1.72 euros/litre for unleaded
 
Agreed the ZTL can be a real pain. Our son used to live within the ZTL in Orvieto. It took nearly 4 months to get a permit for his uk registered vehicle and then only because he knew someone who knew someone etc.
 
The route I had in mind was as follows with the numbers being the number of nights we stay:

Start
2 Stutgart
2 Prague via Afalterbach
1 Vienna
1 Budapest
2 Venice
1 Brescia
3 Rome
1 Pisa
2 Monaco
1 Cannes
1 Le Mans
3 Paris
End

Do not leave out the Mileau Bridge on the A75? from Montpellier to Paris!
Regards
John
 
millau not mileau!!!
very spectacular, but a little too far west, I think!
If Carcassonne was added to the list then okay.
 
In mileage terms, not much in it - probably 30-40 km more.

Will be cheaper in toll terms - Millau to Clermont is virtually toll-free.
 
Haven't done any of Italy as yet, but for the Cote D'Azur leg I'd do a night in Menton, pop into Monaco for a night, then Biot (nr Antibes). Leaves plenty of time to run through the corniches and the great little sea-side towns (rather than places like Cannes that rarely live up to their reputation).

You could also replicate the run into Nice a la Ronin :)
 
OK, as promised here are a few more ideas for your list.

I’ve organised a few motorcycle tours for friends over the years and have found John Hermann’s Motorcycle Journeys Through the Alps and Beyond to be a really useful resource. Although it’s written from a motorcyclists perspective, it works for cars as well :D BTW, I had a quick look at the site that DITTRICH linked to in post #13 and it looks like Dietrich and Corinna are fans of the book too ;)

I don’t know how many days you’re planning to take, nor whether you’re more interested in the journey or the destinations, but clearly both those factors will influence how much you can fit in to the trip. Personally I like a mixture of great roads and great destinations so I tend to avoid motorways unless they’re the only viable way to get the journey done in a sensible time. I like to be able to “stop and smell the roses” while I’m travelling too as there’s nothing worse than seeing something spectacular that really warrants a look around and having to blast past it to get to a destination. I therefore tend to plan for anything between 4 and 6 hours of driving time in a day, remembering that average speeds on mountain roads can be quite slow at times, so sometimes distances covered aren’t that great. Quality rather than Quantity is my general motto.

It’s quite possible to cover the three main lakes (Garda, Como & Maggiore) quite quickly but you’ll really miss out if you do. Also be aware that depending upon how late in spring you’re planning to go, some of the higher passes (e.g. the Stelvio) may be closed due to snow so you could miss out on some spectacular scenery. Tuscany is undoubtedly beautiful, but so is Umbria and that tends to be cheaper too as it’s not quite so well established on the tourist trail (yet). Perugia is a fascinating place worth a couple of days, and you can easily visit Assisi and Gubbio from there.

Another area worth a visit is the Dolomites, which have some truly spectacular roads and lots of good hotels at sensible prices. I can recommend Hotel Gran Paradis in Campitello di Fasa which is a pretty central place for access to some of the best passes in the area and is run by a brother (who’s a bit of a petrolhead) and sister and their families. If you do choose to stay at the Gran Paradis ask for a copy of their route cards which will help you have some great drives on the best roads in the area.

One particular two-week trip we did that worked really well was:

  • Cross France by whatever route you prefer and stop at Colmar for a night. We stopped at Ste Menehould for the first night and then went cross-country (Bar-Le-Duc – Neufchateau – St Dié – Colmar) the next day, but if you need to get to the interesting bits quickly, then Colmar is doable in a day, especially if there are two of you driving.
  • From Colmar, cross into Germany and past Frieburg then alongside the Bodensee, cross into Austria and take the Bödel pass (1148m), Hochtannbergpass (1675m), Flexenpass (1773m) and finally the Arlbergpass (1793m) to Landeck where we stayed at the Tramser Hof for three nights. This gives you two days to explore, and I recommend one of them is spent driving a loop that takes in the Reschenpass, the Finstermünzpass, the Passo dello Stelvio, then back via the Bernina Pass to Landeck which is just shy of 200 miles of some of the most scenic high passes in Europe.
  • From Landeck, head south over the Timmelsjoch (the descent to Merano has some truly memorable views), then head towards Bolzano and pick up the A22 south to Torri del Benaco on the east of Lake Garda. We stayed for three nights at Hotel Gardesana where I recommend you book a room which has lake view and balcony overlooking the mediaeval harbour and castle. There are some great drives around the lake (e.g. head anti-clockwise around the north, through the tunnel and up into the hills then back down to the west side and get the ferry back to Torri del Benaco), or brave the crowds in Sirmione to the south. It’s also a great location for a day trip by bus to Verona, or by train to Venice.
  • From Torri del Benaco, head back to Annecy via Torino and the Frejus Tunnel for a night, then back through France by whichever route you like.
If you choose to travel via Austria then you will need to buy a Motorway / Expressway vignette which are available at petrol stations near the border. If you choose to travel via Switzerland it’s possible to avoid their motorway network if you have a good map and are prepared to do some detailed planning, but it would probably be easier to buy a Swiss Motorway Vignette. Note that the Swiss have the concept of a “semi-motorway” which can vary from a single carriageway up to motorway standard dual carriageways and you need the vignette for them as well. Swiss roadsigns will invariably point you via a road that requires a vignette, and the alternative routes are either unsigned or poorly signed so it can be a bit of a minefield if you don’t have one.

Radar detectors are illegal in France, Germany and Switzerland; GPS-based speedcam warning systems are illegal in Germany and Switzerland. The Swiss have recently passed a law that prohibits publication of speedcam locations on the web too, which should prove interesting :crazy: Italian speedcams are often difficult to spot but their location is normally given away by the traffic around you suddenly hitting the brakes hard. They like using manned radar traps too. As others have said, ZTL’s can be a pain in Italy and some seem to be designed to deliberately catch out the foreign tourist (no, you don’t say... :rolleyes:). Unless you’re out in the boonies then it’s best to select a hotel with a gated and locked carpark too.
 

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