The motoring underclass

[Satch]

Lots of cameras, not many traffic police, congestion charges, high road tax and insurance costs produce:

a “motoring underclass” of two million drivers who can escape speeding fines, parking penalties and driving convictions.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2566896_1,00.html

So road pricing is going to work well then

 

[MangoMan]

Making more laws/increased charges/taxes just results in more to break.

Not only that, but I think a lot of people are just starting to get a bit fed-up with the feeling of being ripped-off. And why should people hold themselves accountable, when Führer Blair doesn't himself? And I consider that just slightly worse than not paying a parking fine!

 

[glojo]

Does this finally prove just how good speed cameras are in helping to make our roads safer? This article states that from 1995 up to 2004, motorists that have been caught speeding have increased TEN FOLD. I dread to think of the numbers caught if we included figures up to, and including 2006! Yet road deaths are not declining at ALL?

The explosion in speeding offences detected by cameras, up tenfold in a decade from 200,000 in 1995 to 1.9 million in 2004. has given drivers a greater incentive to avoid registering their vehicles. More than a million speeding fines are not paid each year, partly because the current owners cannot be traced.

I am still baffled as to why the road fund licence is not scrapped in lieu of a small increase in taxation on fuel. Use the current tax disc as a displayed MOT\Insurance certificate. I have no objection to ANPR crews impounding vehicles that do not have a current MOT, plus of course insurance. The Police National Computer can be updated within 24hrs if the resources are available.


Flash was stopped recently and it is highly probable his insurance details were on the Police Computer, which highlights the point that it is possible to have a more efficient system?

Regards,
John

 

[Shude]

If you move house, change name etc and don't tell anyone your car can quickly become detached from the system. There is a growing market for "unregistered" cars that have fallen off the map. From what I hear/read they are about a third overpriced for what they are but are basically untraceable due to the previous owners not correctly filling out the documentation etc.

All the speeding tickets, parking fines, congestion charges etc either go nowhere or to addresses that are no-longer correct and the driver becomes very difficult to track down. If that car changes hands a few times then it's officially invisble.

 

[kikkthecat]

Does anyone believe this situation is going to get any better ?

As more and more people decide thay can't/won't be used as a cash cow by our motorist hating government and decide to risk the illegal route, then even more costs are piled on those of us who try to stay legal.

And as Satch said, just wait until road pricing comes in.

"We just want to fit this device to your car sir, that will be £200 please and you'll be getting a monthly bill that will make your eyes water. Oh and we know exactly where you are, where you've been and what speed you were doing, so if you dont mind we'll include a NIP or two with that."

If it carries on like this then I believe in 10 years time the number of illegal to legal drivers will be heading towards 50/50

 

[Rory]

ANPR should work, but they seem to set it up on major routes - I think it could be much better targeted at known areas.

I live in the North West and colleagues in the South East have told me that the situation with foreign registered cars is getting out of control there.

 

[Sp!ke]

I've been thinking of having a Slovenian registration myself.

I think the law as it stands is that the vehicle just needs to go home once anually to keep legal.

Not really a lot the cops could do even when they pull you over if you give name and address details abroad is there? I understand cross border driving penalties are coming for France and Germany but it'll take a fair while to get all the countries to agree.

 

[imadoofus]

This thing I can't understand is why they keep showing those ads on the telly, telling you that the DVLA just need to look at their computer to see who's dodging their road tax. If it's that easy, then just do them for it, rather than telling them you're going to!

This article makes me think that in fact, the DVLA don't know who's dodging at all!

PJ

 

[Sp!ke]

They can only tell its you if you've registered it to yourself at your address.

 

[Shude]

This thing I can't understand is why they keep showing those ads on the telly, telling you that the DVLA just need to look at their computer to see who's dodging their road tax. If it's that easy, then just do them for it, rather than telling them you're going to!

This article makes me think that in fact, the DVLA don't know who's dodging at all!

If you are a legitimate car owner, have insurance, pay road tax, drive within the speed limits and are generally a good citizen *but* one day accidently make a mistake like forgetting to tick a box on a form or go 5mph too fast then you're stomped on by the establishment.

If on the other hand you drive an unregistered car, don't have insurance, don't pay road tax (where would the reminders go? ) then you can speed, park carelessly, drive in bus-lanes and generally do what you want because there is no valid address to help track you down. Car gets a bit too hot? Just change the plates to some other mug's or simply swap the car with another criminal and you're free to carry on.

 

[Uncle Buck]

if the dvla knew who was dodging they wouldnt waste a million advertising the fact.

you cant chase an invisible car unless the cops pull you directly.

 

[Benzowner]

if the dvla knew who was dodging they wouldnt waste a million advertising the fact.

you cant chase an invisible car unless the cops pull you directly.

...........and other than motorways, how often do you see a cop car on the road?

 

[Shude]

you cant chase an invisible car unless the cops pull you directly.

This is why a lot of traffic officers (off TV at least) seem to target those without seatbelts. The fools often telegraph their legal status by practically screaming to be pulled for minor infractions like faulty lights, bald tyres or no seatbelts etc. If they smartened up their act by at least trying to mimic the legal drivers they would probably get away with it, and no amount of additional cameras is going to stop this.

Remember that the people most likely to be involved in accidents are those without insurance - the very people that should really have it but it is either prohibitively expensive or just not a priority (bless 'em).

 

[jeremytaylor]

I always thought DVLA was its own department.

But clearly with this level of incompetence they must now be part of the Home Office.

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

Is this report any surprise .

Again this is due to replacing humans (traffic cops ) with machines (ANPR's/CCTV etc.).

If they were 'off the road' congestion and road charging may not be (such) an issue.

Cheers,

 

[Shude]

If they were 'off the road' congestion and road charging may not be (such) an issue.

I think that a few ANPR cameras kicking about in popular places with a nice database to build up profiles would be useful. Probably illegal but if patterns could be spotted then these cars could be tidied up in no time.

 

[Plodd]

There are already quite a few ANPR cameras in town centres and other places that people tend to visit in their cars.

Have you been to a large out of town shopping center recently?

 

[Swiss Toni]

I think that a few ANPR cameras kicking about in popular places with a nice database to build up profiles would be useful. Probably illegal but if patterns could be spotted then these cars could be tidied up in no time.

Not illegal.

They have and it does.

 

[Carrotchomper]

To respond to a couple of points here...

The siting of ANPR checks is intelligence-based and well thought out. I can see the rationale of parking in dodgy area but primarily the reason for siting on major routes is volume of traffic and, therefore, hits. This makes the units more efficient by letting them pick and choose the more serious "hits".

In the main the sites are based on main roads with few side turnings in the locality, pinch points if you will, to prevent people avoiding them. For this reason the middle of large housing estates do not fit the bill!

Even without the operation-based sites with vans and intercept cars, most traffic cars now have ANPR on when roving around, which mops up the stragglers...

In response to Sp!ke's point about Slovenian registration, I suspect your tongue was at least partly in cheek but this isn't recommended. If you are stopped for a serious enough offence then the only other option is arrest if you can or will not produce a British address.

Asides from that PNC has the capacity to hold intelligence markers, if placed, on ANY registration mark. If it came to light that someone was using a foreign registration as a ploy then it may well be flagged against that plate and you would be tracked down anyway!

Fully fully accept the points about "Motoring underclass" though. Rest assured that the new powers of seizure for uninsured/licenced cars are starting to have an effect and, anecdotally at least, the number of "pool" cars are starting to decline rapidly.

 

[BonzoDog]

I suspect that the temptation to do this is not thatthere is an unjust Government unduly penalising motorists, more a large number of 'chancers' who realise they stand a good chance of getting away.
It would not be surprising if a new agency were set up just to haul in these vehicles and people because 1) it inflicts some sort of penalty on the offender and 2) there may well be income in the crushed car.
The worst aspect is the criminal nature of this. It increases the number of hit and runs and at an irritating but less serious level puts up the cost of insurance and tax for everybody.
The foreign registered scam is ridiculous. If anything ever stands out like a sore thumb it is a foreign registration and the cost of maintaining foreign status is not inconsiderable.