There is a god and I think he must be a petrol-head...

[Bellow]

It's already been done

Cars: Hydrogen Electric XP1 Hypercar - Hyperion

Hyperion is proud to have leading experts in hydrogen fuel cell and aerospace technology.

www.hyperion.inc

Just need to scale that down a bit!

Indeed.

 

[grober]

The Hyperion hydrogen hypercar is a true game changer
ESTIMATED COST 2-3 MILLION DOLLARS !
Now I know that the common assumption that's held is to just scale things down a bit, but when you make things simpler, smaller and cheaper it's a lot more complex than one might assume a first glance. Think of the Houses of Parliament Big Ben and then a top-of-the-line Rolex watch-- different size/price often means entirely different build technology which may not even exist. When Mercedes first decided to build the latest generation of A class vehicles it's rumoured they had to go to Renault to learn how to build a small car economically enough to be profitable!

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[sgregory124]

The Hyperion hydrogen hypercar is a true game changer
ESTIMATED COST 2-3 MILLION DOLLARS !
Now I know that the common assumption that's held is to just scale things down a bit, but when you make things simpler, smaller and cheaper it's a lot more complex than one might assume a first glance. Think of the Houses of Parliament Big Ben and then a top-of-the-line Rolex watch-- different size/price often means entirely different build technology which may not even exist. When Mercedes first decided to build the latest generation of A class vehicles it's rumoured they had to go to Renault to learn how to build a small car economically enough to be profitable!

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Computers once filled entire floors of buildings, now I’m writing this reply to you on a device not much bigger than my wallet…

It is entirely possible to scale down this technology.

 

[Germgh0st]

The Hyperion hydrogen hypercar is a true game changer
ESTIMATED COST 2-3 MILLION DOLLARS !
Now I know that the common assumption that's held is to just scale things down a bit, but when you make things simpler, smaller and cheaper it's a lot more complex than one might assume a first glance. Think of the Houses of Parliament Big Ben and then a top-of-the-line Rolex watch-- different size/price often means entirely different build technology which may not even exist. When Mercedes first decided to build the latest generation of A class vehicles it's rumoured they had to go to Renault to learn how to build a small car economically enough to be profitable!

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

It's a one off hand-built car, of course it's prohibitively expensive.

This was an extreme example, plenty of other compainies have already developed hydrogen powered cars.

 

[markjay]

Indeed.

...It is entirely possible to scale down this technology.

Indeed!

 

[190]

But looking at this dispassionately, there is no way that all the plant's adult inhabitants can have cars and drive them everywhere, all the time - it's an extinction event in the making.

There's too much focus on the fuel source for powering cars instead of looking more fundamentally at the car or other means of transport itself, particularly it's size, weight and performance. It doesn't matter whether it's powered by electricity, hydrogen or e-fuel, the bottom line is that no personal means of transport is going to be green if it weighs 2.5 tonnes and climbing. The biggest EV cars are already 3 tonnes. The present trend for EV's is going in completely the wrong direction in this respect. I cannot accept a view that I have to give up my own car while monster EV's are allowed to grow in size and weight unchecked just because the owner can afford it. There is so much that can be done to reduce emissions by reducing the size of vehicles before individuals need to be deprived of their own personal transport and to say otherwise is defeatist. We could learn from the Japanese and introduce something along the principle of Kei cars where substantial financial benefits are accrued for cars restricted in size and weight. Note I said principle, they would have to be a little bigger.

Please will nobody mention public transport as a solution. I waited 30 mins for a bus today that simply never came and had to walk 5 miles as a result.








.

 

[ToeKnee]

And the elephant in the room, that is never mentioned, is over population, that needs to be checked or no matter what we do the human race is doomed.....

 

[Charliecloud]

And the elephant in the room, that is never mentioned, is over population, that needs to be checked or no matter what we do the human race is doomed.....

Yawn

 

[ALFAitalia]

ICE has a lower environmental footprint than EV and - especially when freed of onerous emissions kit (see below) easier to maintain extending life and better amortising the production emissions.

Sorry....but that is just compete and utter rubbish.....ICE cars are far worse environmentally (that's taking everything into account, making, using, servicing, fueling and disposal) and longer you keep it and the more miles you do the more the needle swings in favour of EVs. Currently it takes about 50 to 60 thousand miles to break even with an ICE car as far as carbon goes....and after that it's no contest.
And those suggesting E fuels or hydrogen might be the answer need to do more research......they take LOADS of carbon producing electricity to make. So won't be viable until we have loads of surplus renewable electricity sloshing about in the system. And even then to add another process (or several) to convert electricity into hydrogen or E fuel will clearly introduce lots more loses into the system. And then when you have your fuel you will burn it in a similar way to petrol...with similar efficiency....about 28 to 30 percent on a good engine....and that's not including the loses caused making the fuel....power that car directly with electricity and it's 85 to 90 percent efficient. As it stands hydrogen and E fuels are a non starter......Things might change but it would take a miracle in production of those fuels to get anywhere close to the overall efficiency of electricity.
As said I personally would never buy an EV and will argue the best I can in favour of ICE....but I won't go as far as talking nonsense about EVs as an alternative.
I think I've said enough ...so I'll leave you "experts" to it!

 

[ALFAitalia]

And the elephant in the room, that is never mentioned, is over population, that needs to be checked or no matter what we do the human race is doomed.....

Absolutely correct....too many people is the main issue However research says that due to reduction in fertility the global population with probably peak at sub 9 billion in 2050 then reduce quite quickly.....perhaps to 7 billion by 2100.Birth rate is already falling fast in many parts of the world.

Global population could peak below 9 billion in 2050s — Earth4All

New analysis by Earth4All researchers suggests the global population could peak just below 9 billion people in 2050 then start falling.

www.earth4all.life

 

[Bellow]

Sorry....but that is just compete and utter rubbish.....ICE cars are far worse environmentally (that's taking everything into account, making, using, servicing, fueling and disposal) and longer you keep it and the more miles you do the more the needle swings in favour of EVs. Currently it takes about 50 to 60 thousand miles to break even with an ICE car as far as carbon goes....and after that it's no contest.
And those suggesting E fuels or hydrogen might be the answer need to do more research......they take LOADS of carbon producing electricity to make. So won't be viable until we have loads of surplus renewable electricity sloshing about in the system. And even then to add another process (or several) to convert electricity into hydrogen or E fuel will clearly introduce lots more loses into the system. And then when you have your fuel you will burn it in a similar way to petrol...with similar efficiency....about 28 to 30 percent on a good engine....and that's not including the loses caused making the fuel....power that car directly with electricity and it's 85 to 90 percent efficient. As it stands hydrogen and E fuels are a non starter......Things might change but it would take a miracle in production of those fuels to get anywhere close to the overall efficiency of electricity.
As said I personally would never buy an EV and will argue the best I can in favour of ICE....but I won't go as far as talking nonsense about EVs as an alternative.
I think I've said enough ...so I'll leave you "experts" to it!

You've missed the point. The context was when there is an abundance of renewably generated electricity to produce E-fuels and being CO2 neutral engine efficiency scarcely matters.
The argument then becomes about the materials required for battery production ie, the environmental and social impact in countries that we have no control of regarding those parameters.

 

[markjay]

There's too much focus on the fuel source for powering cars instead of looking more fundamentally at the car or other means of transport itself, particularly it's size, weight and performance. It doesn't matter whether it's powered by electricity, hydrogen or e-fuel, the bottom line is that no personal means of transport is going to be green if it weighs 2.5 tonnes and climbing. The biggest EV cars are already 3 tonnes. The present trend for EV's is going in completely the wrong direction in this respect. I cannot accept a view that I have to give up my own car while monster EV's are allowed to grow in size and weight unchecked just because the owner can afford it. There is so much that can be done to reduce emissions by reducing the size of vehicles before individuals need to be deprived of their own personal transport and to say otherwise is defeatist. We could learn from the Japanese and introduce something along the principle of Kei cars where substantial financial benefits are accrued for cars restricted in size and weight. Note I said principle, they would have to be a little bigger.

Please will nobody mention public transport as a solution. I waited 30 mins for a bus today that simply never came and had to walk 5 miles as a result.

But our city centres are congested with traffic.... at which point it doesn't matter if it's a heavy EV or a lightweight ICE car.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

And the elephant in the room, that is never mentioned, is over population, that needs to be checked or no matter what we do the human race is doomed.....

This. It's simple, there are too many of us

 

[190]

And the elephant in the room, that is never mentioned, is over population, that needs to be checked or no matter what we do the human race is doomed.....

True but biological population growth is not occurring in any developed country. The UK population would shrink rapidly if we could control our borders. Nothing we do in the UK will fix the problem of world population growth. The only solution is to develop the 3rd world countries to the point where their fertility rate falls below 2.1. We can help them with education and finance but we can't make them do it.

But our city centres are congested with traffic.... at which point it doesn't matter if it's a heavy EV or a lightweight ICE car.

Cities centres can do want they want. I don't live in one and very rarely visit one and when I do it isn't in a car so they can ban cars altogether if that's what it takes. The problems in cities are not a reason to take my car away or for that matter restrict what type I can buy.

 

[BigJase88]

Sooner EV's binned off the better

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This. It's simple, there are too many of us

Too many in Monaco, Manhattan, London, Surrey or the Hebrides?

“We” (and especially the young) say there’s too many, and then immediately run to live in the most crowded parts. Because that’s where “we” want to be.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well, boys, we’re a very long way from whether we can, or should, ban all forms of ICE engines by 2035.

 

[Dickster]

Personally, I think that the whole issue of 'will the grid cope' is a Red Herring.

All cars - EVs & ICE - have a massive environmental footprint regardless of their means of propulsion.

Encouraging ICE drivers to move to EV is akin to giving drug-addicts Methadone instead of Heroin, and telling them that this is the answer to their problem.

I am all in favour of EVs (and indeed have one myself). I often 'defend' EVs on here, but that's simply because some of the 'arguments' against them are clearly fabricated with the sole intention of making EVs look like a less-favourable choice than ICE cars. And so I find myself fighting the EV corner.

But looking at this dispassionately, there is no way that all the plant's adult inhabitants can have cars and drive them everywhere, all the time - it's an extinction event in the making.

You keep bringing this up. So how are you going to get everyone out of cars that we are now so reliant on? Are you going to regenerate the high street too? I work in the West End of London for over 30 years and that’s in major decline.

 

[m80]

Yawn

Why the yawn?
There never will be any strategy to reduce an ever increasing population, so the rest is utter BS.

How the hell can anyone think reducing the waste (in any form) per capita can be any benefit as populations grow can be an answer baffles me.
We (humans) may reduce individual waste, but the overall still grows due to increased population.
Meanwhile those that are born have a harder life because.

I don't swallow the prediction stuff, and tbh even 9 billion must be considered excessive, because in true political style come 2050 anyone making said prediction isn't here to answer for their failing. All life wants to propagate and be dominant. 'We' have achieved that and I don't see our attitude to doing more of that propagating has changed, where there's a willy there's a way.

 

[markjay]

You keep bringing this up. So how are you going to get everyone out of cars that we are now so reliant on? Are you going to regenerate the high street too? I work in the West End of London for over 30 years and that’s in major decline.

I would argue (though admittedly I don't know if there's data to support it) that efficient and affordable public transport coupled with pedestrian zones are good for the high street, as opposed to when people are used to drive there through traffic congestion and then drive around looking for (expensive) parking.