Towing Capabilities W211

[Druk]

I certainly can't agree with you about the 100%. Equi-trek openly advertise triple axle horse trailers plated at 3500kg being pulled by a Range Rover. I have never seen any special case being made that puts 4x4s being in a special class. The same rules apply to 4x4s as any other towing vehicle.

I think 4X4s are in a different class. When I had to tow my boat to a new storage site 20miles away I made a special point of asking the local Vosa this very question. The boat + trailer weighs 2.1 tons. The gross train weight of the 320 is 4.2t which should allow me to tow it but I was refused on the grounds of the Merc is 1.99t. (I have a certified weighbridge certificate saying that). But a Landy belonging to my mate was quite acceptable. I think Range Rovers are plated up to 3.5t.

Usual disclaimers apply........


ps. What I object to is all these horsey folk towing Dobbin and Neddie at 40mph and holding up us caravaners on our way to our holiday.....

:bannana::bannana::bannana:



.

 

[Blackjack]

This is what I "think" is correct...

What is the maximum caravan laden weight on the caravans chassis plate? What is the Mercs max train weight and kerb weight? Deduct one from the other and you derive tha maximum towable weight. The maximum towable mass might also be listed seperately in your handbook. The plated figures though are the ones that count.

If you exceed any of the maximums then you are not legal. The ULW of your caravan is only a guide as to how much payload your caravan might be able to carry. MLW-ULW = payload. It is the MLW that is more important. If unsure then you will need to put your caravan on a weighbridge when everything is packed.

The Mercs maximum plated train weight must be heavier than the caravans plated MLW+the Mercs plated unladen kerb weight. The Mercs maximum train weight must never be exceeded.

In addition I would also pay close attention to the noseweight and aim to run it at the maximum. If you are also close to your limit then you should also consider a hitch stabiliser to reduce snaking, or just fit one anyway.

Lastly, tyre pressures are extremely important. Under-inflated tyres cause premature tyre failure and instability. Check your tyre pressures are inaccordance with the manufacturers recommendations, and also that the correct type of tyres are fitted. Some people fit cheaper un-reinforced tyres to save money, but these tyres can not take the load or required pressures needed.

Tyre pressures are often much higher than you would expect on a car. My horser trailer runs at 93psi, and from memory the last caravan I had was running at around 55psi, but they will all vary.

DISCLAIMER:
I am not a legal expert nor qualified to give any advice on towing and any advice given is not to be relied on under any circumstances. If you want any towing or legal advice then you should ask a competant expert in those fields.

The short answer is that yes the caravan MTPLM (GVW) is less (considerably) than the Merc max tow limit of 2100KG so the combined Train weight is well within the GTW in the specs of the Merc hand book.

I know that what I want to do is legal, I was hoping that someone might have been able to tell me how the E220 Estate behaved as a "Tug"

 

[A210AMG]

I would think that that while a E220 will pull your van its probably on the limit of what it should pull and a little underpowered?

Does it also have self leveling?

 

[timskemp]

I would think that that while a E220 will pull your van its probably on the limit of what it should pull and a little underpowered?

Any more underpowered than a fully laden Vario 7.5 tonner with 130PS?

 

[Blackjack]

So if I were to upgrade my horse trailer to a triple axle Star Treka with an ULW of 1850kg and a max of 3500kg, could I legally tow it empty with a vehicle whose maximum trailer weight is 2700kg? Clearly I would have a payload of 850kg and that would be enough for one large horse or 2 13.2h ish ponies.

The Equi-Trek delaer I spoke to said that I couldn't do it because the trailer was plated at 3500kg. But if it were replated to 2700 kg I definately would not have a problem?

Because a Trailer is stamped at a GVW of 3500KG does not mean you cannot drag it with anything that is not rated to pull 3500KG, you can drag it with a car that is only rated at 2000kg, but if the ULW of the trailer is say 900KG then legally you should not have a payload of more than 1100KG on the trailer to keep within the law regarding the vehicles max Train weight.

The key factors here for the points of law is the trailers plated weight.
E.G. Max GVW of 3500kg ULW 900KG = 2600kg Maximum payload

The Tow vehicle design Train weight 5550KG.
E.G. GTW 5550Kg - ULW 2050KG = Max Towable braked trailer 3500KG (the max of any un-braked trailer is only 750KG)

 

[Blackjack]

I would think that that while a E220 will pull your van its probably on the limit of what it should pull and a little underpowered?

Does it also have self leveling?

Yes it does have self levelling air suspension, regarding the power, with PowerBox the engine should be 204 BHP (from 170BHP) and 455NM of torque, this is considerable more oomph than the 4x4 I pull it with at the moment.

 

[BTB 500]

I should have pointed out the caravan is a Eddlis Crusader Storm 2007 (twin axle so is very stable when towed) with a ULW of 1625KG this is under the ULW of the E220 so would be legal but a little outside the general 85% rule advised by the Caravan Club.

No, because the Caravan Club guidelines (widely adopted by many other organisations) are based on the maximum weight of the caravan (MTPLM). The absolute minimum weight you should consider is the MIRO (mass in running order), which includes battery, gas, spare wheel, etc.

 

[A210AMG]

Yes it does have self levelling air suspension, regarding the power, with PowerBox the engine should be 204 BHP (from 170BHP) and 455NM of torque, this is considerable more oomph than the 4x4 I pull it with at the moment.

That sounds good then,


Think I would ring someone in the caravan club or contact some one in the caravan magazine and ask them.

Seems a simple yes or no answer isn't the case.


Good luck

 

[BTB 500]

I hear what you believe, but my horse trailer has a MLW of 2.7 tonnes and the L200 has a manufacturers maximum trailer weight of 2.8 tonnes. I think the L200 has a kerb weight of about 1.9 tonnes. So in theory, if I towed the trailer fully laden at roughly 150% I would not be exceeding the trailers nor the L200s manufacturers specifications. In fact even with just one horse and lots of gear I probably could just about hit 100%

So if 100% was the law, what on earth tow vehicle could ever pull it with two horses in?

I specifically said it was legal to tow up to the car's braked trailer limit, or did you miss that?

I also said I thought that towing a demonstrably unstable outfit could lay you open to prosecution to it being 'unroadworthy' ... even if below the braked trailer limit. AFAIK that is the case.

And that towing a TRAILER of over 100% was often OK from a stability POV.

However this thread is about CARAVANS ... and a caravan weight match of over 100% is liable to be unstable (due to the high CG and big side area) and therefore not advisable.

 

[BTB 500]

The short answer is that yes the caravan MTPLM (GVW) is less (considerably) than the Merc max tow limit of 2100KG so the combined Train weight is well within the GTW in the specs of the Merc hand book.

I know that what I want to do is legal, I was hoping that someone might have been able to tell me how the E220 Estate behaved as a "Tug"

However from a stability point of view your proposed outfit will not be recommended, because a caravan does not act like a low trailer of the same weight (which would probably be fine)

What's the kerbweight of the 4x4 you use currently?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Sell caravan. Use hotels.Never worry about trainweight, noseweight, snaking, braking, bowwave, towing capacities, caravan insurance, chemical toilets, hook up points, site fees, turning in narrow roads, reversing or causing queues on long hills again. Problem solved.

^^ You seem to know a lot about it??!! ^^

Come on. You're amongst friends. Tell the truth. You LOVE caravanning really!!

Yes it does have self levelling air suspension, regarding the power, with PowerBox the engine should be 204 BHP (from 170BHP) and 455NM of torque, this is considerable more oomph than the 4x4 I pull it with at the moment.

Your Crusader will be broadly the same as our caravan in dimensions/weight, and based on your PowerBox figures you'll have more power and torque than our ML to pull a lower total outfit weight. So you'll probably be OK for tugability.

Sounds like you know as much/little as the rest of us on weights.

Good luck with the new outfit!!

 

[Blackjack]

However from a stability point of view your proposed outfit will not be recommended, because a caravan does not act like a low trailer of the same weight (which would probably be fine)

What's the kerbweight of the 4x4 you use currently?

The 4x4 Kerb weight 2050KG (Max tow cap 3500kg)
The Caravan MIRO 1610KG (78%)

The E220 Kerb weight 1785KG (Max Tow cap 2100kg & MPGVW 2360KG)
The Caravan MIRO 1610KG (90%) (or 80% if you use the max load cap of both units)

 

[Blackjack]

its the MTLPLM not the MIRO which is important here. I believe about 1800kg is about the MTLPLM of the Crusadar TA?

whatever, i love those vans and a worthy replacement to mine! this is exactly what i'll be interested in towing with a 320cdi S211 estate eventually.

The 2007 model is MTPLM 1900KG (270kg User payload)

 

[BTB 500]

But the caravan won't be MIRO when you tow ... it will be significantly heavier - much closer to MTPLM (you quoted approx 1900 kg laden). That's the problem as far as stability is concerned.

With your 4x4 you are fine because even with that at kerb weight and the caravan at MTPLM you have under 100%.

With the E you are likely to be over 100% when on the road, which would generally be regarded as an unstable combination ... even if legal.

I assume you have B+E entitlement on your licence (passed driving test before 1/1/97, or passed B+E test since then)?

 

[Apial]

Because a Trailer is stamped at a GVW of 3500KG does not mean you cannot drag it with anything that is not rated to pull 3500KG, you can drag it with a car that is only rated at 2000kg, but if the ULW of the trailer is say 900KG then legally you should not have a payload of more than 1100KG on the trailer to keep within the law regarding the vehicles max Train weight.

The key factors here for the points of law is the trailers plated weight.
E.G. Max GVW of 3500kg ULW 900KG = 2600kg Maximum payload

The Tow vehicle design Train weight 5550KG.
E.G. GTW 5550Kg - ULW 2050KG = Max Towable braked trailer 3500KG (the max of any un-braked trailer is only 750KG)

I have been advised by Equi-Trek that this is not the case. Technically you must not tow anything that has a higher MGW than the towing vehicle is rated for. However, due to the total confusion most people ignore or do not know that this is the case. It is only if you get pulled by VOSA that they might bring this up. Not having been pulled by VOSA myself I can not comment on what action they might take, but if the trailer was replated to match the towing vehicle, then the technicality would be removed. Equi-Trek have told me that they often do this for customers who do not need the full payload that the trailer is rated for.

Having a correctly matched towed combination removes one more thing for the VOSA examiner to pick up on.

 

[The Pan Man]

The power output of the E220 CDI engine is around 204 BHP and around 455NM with the Power Box fitted.
Rolling road or manufacturers claim?

 

[Apial]

I did find a reply on another forum that Nick Froome thought that the E220 CDI was good to tow caravans up to 1600kg. After that they started to run out of power.

Different drivers ideas of sufficient power are bound to vary though. I have towed with a Land Rover Defender that had a massive towing ability, but it was very very slow.

Personally I would save the money on putting a bar on the back of the Mercedes and use the 4x4. It will give you a safer ride, and if you have to travel over boggy ground you will not get stuck.

 

[Apial]

ps. What I object to is all these horsey folk towing Dobbin and Neddie at 40mph and holding up us caravaners on our way to our holiday.....

:bannana::bannana::bannana:



.

I thought that you caravaners liked to see the countryside, especially Dobbin and Neddie munching on the hay net peering at you through the back window....

 

[Druk]

I have been advised by Equi-Trek that this is not the case. Technically you must not tow anything that has a higher MGW than the towing vehicle is rated for. However, due to the total confusion most people ignore or do not know that this is the case. It is only if you get pulled by VOSA that they might bring this up. Not having been pulled by VOSA myself I can not comment on what action they might take, but if the trailer was replated to match the towing vehicle, then the technicality would be removed. Equi-Trek have told me that they often do this for customers who do not need the full payload that the trailer is rated for.

Having a correctly matched towed combination removes one more thing for the VOSA examiner to pick up on.

To replate a trailer downwards to suit the car is one thing but you cannot replate a car upwards to suit a too heavy trailer. What is becoming much more prevalent recently is this scenario...
Toddling down the M5 with wifie, kids and fully laden caravan and pull into services for pee. There stands Vosa with full police back-up and portable weighbridge. Surprise, surprise.
Be assured, you had better not be exceeding the VOSA rules on loading/towing whether it be caravan, horsebox, boat or whatever or they will not let you continue until things are put right.
The earlier advice by BTB that 2100kg is the theoretical trailer weight for a hillstart and not the permitted trailer weight is (imho) correct.

Stick with the 4x4.

 

[Blackjack]

But the caravan won't be MIRO when you tow ... it will be significantly heavier - much closer to MTPLM (you quoted approx 1900 kg laden). That's the problem as far as stability is concerned.

With your 4x4 you are fine because even with that at kerb weight and the caravan at MTPLM you have under 100%.

With the E you are likely to be over 100% when on the road, which would generally be regarded as an unstable combination ... even if legal.

I assume you have B+E entitlement on your licence (passed driving test before 1/1/97, or passed B+E test since then)?

Passed test in 1970, Towed commercial plant trailers (contractors plant & car transporters) since then, so as far as experience goes I have many 100,000s of miles under the belt towing, I have also dragged caravans all around the UK and all over civilized Europe since 1980, so I would consider myself reasonable experienced and load up the combination to take advantage load space / specs available so as to keep the combination as stable as possible, even with the 4x4 I put very little in the caravan as we tend to stop en-route to brew up or sleep if a long journey.