Travellers taken over Benz World

[Deleted member 6183]

This is simply not an excuse nor reason to carry on as normal.

Society needs to take a stand and be firm, people who exploit weakness will carry on doing so until they come across a consistent and resolute will to oppose the way they operate.

Stirring stuff, however, would you put yourself on the front line?

 

[Yugguy]

People like this abuse the privileges of a free society in that they will take them but not contribute to providing them.

 

[DSM10000]

Stirring stuff, however, would you put yourself on the front line?

We employ, train and equip people such as the Police and the Armed Forces to protect us from threat and violence, some of us on here are or have been members of those organisations, others not.

 

[Oldbarrack]

We employ, train and equip people such as the Police and the Armed Forces to protect us from threat and violence, some of us on here are or have been members of those organisations, others not.

Props to you if you have done so.

Another problem is in my experience, that installing an alarm and paying for that to be connected to police, is a waste of money.

Any specialist unit/s are not sitting waiting for my/our small problems; they have both limited resource and bigger fish to fry.

So when my alarm goes off upon break in, the police will ensure they don't arrive until they're sure the travellers have left, leaving scant possibility for property retrieval.
The best one can expect is a police report for insurance, should you wish to pay a higher premium the following year, at which renewal time you'll still be arguing with a loss adjuster trying to get some payment.

 

[Darrell]

Many moons ago I worked for the infamous Brent council in the works department. Around this time travellers invaded and took over the beautiful Fryent Way country park, the only really nice green area in NW London at the time. Public rightly complained and eventually the Police called the Brent works department to sort it out. None of the inspectors wanted to go there (rightly, without back up!) but one guy, an ex-Police sergeant agreed to visit the site and "have words". A supervisor reluctantly agreed to accompany him and the two set off in his car to Fryent Way.

Couple of hours later the two returned to base. Ex-sergeants car had been overturned - with BOTH men inside!! They were threatened that the car would be set alight with them in it if they didn't "Feck off back to the hole they came from!" Both guys were unhurt but very shaken and ex-sergeants car was left at the site and wrecked.

It took 6 months for the council and police to finally get them off the site and another three months to clear it of the carp they left behind and build a trench all round the park to try to prevent it happening again.

Many years later I've seen the same thing happening again near where I now live. It;s crazy and discusting.

I remember that.
The area you describe is now popular with doggers!!
(Whatever they are)

 

[LTD]

Careful, remember these "people" are a protected species and you never know who's watching.

Man cleared of inciting hatred with 'batter gypos' comment

I didn’t say hurt them.

 

[KennyN]

Police and authorities are overstretched and poorly equipped to deal with even a small traveler eviction from private or public spaces but what about using the forces to assist with this. A couple of plod and a council official may not get anywhere but roll up with a couple of dozen uniformed soldiers and their transport facilities and i very much doubt that the once vocal travelers would be keen to go toe to toe with some properly trained and "up for it" member of our forces.

Impound any vehicles that are not properly insured or taxed , and if any caravans cant be moved then impound them also until they can be collected with a "legal" means of transport . These should take place at 17:00 on a Friday so they cant go running to the council for emergency accommodation until the Monday

This would only need to happen a couple of times for the message to sink in , even for the hard of thinking.

We spend to much time now-a-days pandering to the minority of wasters. There was a police program on last week and the amount of officers and dog units and time it took to remove a single drunk / drugged piece of scum from a house was unbelievable. One chance to get out , not coming out then gas him out , problem solved and the plod can get on with doing their job.

Kenny

 

[Darrell]

Police and authorities are overstretched and poorly equipped to deal with even a small traveler eviction from private or public spaces but what about using the forces to assist with this. A couple of plod and a council official may not get anywhere but roll up with a couple of dozen uniformed soldiers and their transport facilities and i very much doubt that the once vocal travelers would be keen to go toe to toe with some properly trained and "up for it" member of our forces.

Impound any vehicles that are not properly insured or taxed , and if any caravans cant be moved then impound them also until they can be collected with a "legal" means of transport . These should take place at 17:00 on a Friday so they cant go running to the council for emergency accommodation until the Monday

This would only need to happen a couple of times for the message to sink in , even for the hard of thinking.

We spend to much time now-a-days pandering to the minority of wasters. There was a police program on last week and the amount of officers and dog units and time it took to remove a single drunk / drugged piece of scum from a house was unbelievable. One chance to get out , not coming out then gas him out , problem solved and the plod can get on with doing their job.

Kenny

The armed forces you mention are not here to police the country.

 

[lordlee]

If they cleaned up after themselves it would be a good start.

 

[KennyN]

The armed forces you mention are not here to police the country.

That is correct , it is the job of the police unfortunately there are not enough of them to do what is required so what do you do ?

We have finite resources regarding the police and council officials and sometimes a piece of paper and a logical point of view just wont cut it and "other" tactics need to be used in certain situations.

You and a few mates set up a campsite where you shouldn`t, discard rubbish and excrement around the area cause a nuisance to the members of the public in that immediate area and you will be removed by force if required. Now the same rules should apply to anyone who knowingly puts themselves in a similar situation even if the force required to remove the problem has to be larger , so who ya gona call .

I have no issues with people who operate within the law , but have no sympathy for those who knowingly flaunt it and bleat on about victimization when challenged about it.

As stated previously , it would only need to happen a couple of time for the message to be understood.

Kenny

 

[DSM10000]

The armed forces you mention are not here to police the country.

So your solution would be?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

We employ, train and equip people such as the Police and the Armed Forces to protect us from threat and violence, some of us on here are or have been members of those organisations, others not.

I don't believe that this is an army function and, without wishing to denounce the police, I don't think that our police force are sufficiently equipped in resource or hardware to deal with the problem.

The fact that some of us member may have served in either the police or armed services doesn't impress me in the slightest, are you saying that you have served in one or the other? If so, does that give you some sort of gravitas?

For the record I have served in neither, I have entered a traveller camp site looking to find a car that I wanted to repossess many years ago and can confirm that I was most unwelcome and, had I found the car, I would have been most unlikely to have taken it back with me. Thinking through the logistics later in the day it was clear that the returns would have never stacked up in terms of resource/risk required.

 

[Deleted96908]

If they cleaned up after themselves it would be a good start.

Well yes. My mind is divided on whether Travellers should be forced to do anything, least of all comply just because the rest of us think it's a good idea.

But as you say - "Clean the f*ck up after you..." - that's the least they should be doing.

 

[bpsorrel]

I remember that.
The area you describe is now popular with doggers!!
(Whatever they are)

LOL! According to urban dictionary, a dogger is "voyeurs who watch couples fecking in the woods"
Some progress!! Might as well left the travellers as they were, same activities.... LOL!

Can't sat I miss NW London! LOL

 

[DSM10000]

I don't believe that this is an army function and, without wishing to denounce the police, I don't think that our police force are sufficiently equipped in resource or hardware to deal with the problem.

The fact that some of us member may have served in either the police or armed services doesn't impress me in the slightest, are you saying that you have served in one or the other? If so, does that give you some sort of gravitas?

For the record I have served in neither, I have entered a traveller camp site looking to find a car that I wanted to repossess many years ago and can confirm that I was most unwelcome and, had I found the car, I would have been most unlikely to have taken it back with me. Thinking through the logistics later in the day it was clear that the returns would have never stacked up in terms of resource/risk required.

You seem to be misreading or misinterpreting posts, perhaps you could come up with some constructive proposals of your own rather than denigrating any you seem to disagree with?

My mention of members on hee who may have served or serve in our Police or Armed Forces was not there to impress you or anyone it was a contextual part of the discussion and for the record I am not nor have I been a member of either so I am not seeking gravitas as you rather clumsily suggest.

I would ,however, give more credence to the views of those who serve / have served as they will have relevant experience to add to the debate rather than negativity.

The debate is simple; do we allow certain groups in our society to operate outside the law without being subject to the consequences whilst expecting others to obey those laws?

If the answer is no then how should we address it?

 

[DSM10000]

Well yes. My mind is divided on whether Travellers should be forced to do anything, least of all comply just because the rest of us think it's a good idea.

But as you say - "Clean the f*ck up after you..." - that's the least they should be doing.

I completely agree that people should be free to live their lives as they wish but, if you chose to live within a society it is only reasonable that you do so without your lifestyle choices having negative impacts on other people.

 

[E55BOF]

The purpose of the Armed Forces is ultimately to go to interesting places, meet interesting people, kill them and break their stuff. In a free liberal Western democracy that isn't going to happen domestically. Even if martial law were declared, there are no conceivable circumstances in which they would be tasked to beat up and harass such people.

Another solution would be to recruit a bunch of big tough lads to sort them out; a good kicking, and wreck their caravans. Personally, I would have no problem with that, but it would be vigilante justice, and that isn't going to happen either.

The police, even if they wanted to, do not have the resources to put an end to such behaviour.

There is no satisfactory answer; it's one of the prices we pay for living in a free liberal Western democracy.

We're all doomed....

 

[Deleted member 6183]

You seem to be misreading or misinterpreting posts, perhaps you could come up with some constructive proposals of your own rather than denigrating any you seem to disagree with?

My mention of members on hee who may have served or serve in our Police or Armed Forces was not there to impress you or anyone it was a contextual part of the discussion and for the record I am not nor have I been a member of either so I am not seeking gravitas as you rather clumsily suggest.

I would ,however, give more credence to the views of those who serve / have served as they will have relevant experience to add to the debate rather than negativity.

The debate is simple; do we allow certain groups in our society to operate outside the law without being subject to the consequences whilst expecting others to obey those laws?

I must be misinterpreting because all I saw in your original post was stirring rhetoric. You talk about standing up to these people but seem a bit weak regarding the logistics.

I have frequently tried to steer discussions on the forum towards problem solving or open mindedness but, sadly, it's a waste of time as there is little appetite here for either.

The debate isn't simple at all otherwise you would have come up with some more detailed solutions.

I am clumsy and have the scars to prove it.

My original position still stands, the police are not in a position to take a firmer line with these people and there doesn't seem to be a viable solution currently, sorry for the negativity.

 

[Crickleymal]

Police and authorities are overstretched and poorly equipped to deal with even a small traveler eviction from private or public spaces but what about using the forces to assist with this. A couple of plod and a council official may not get anywhere but roll up with a couple of dozen uniformed soldiers and their transport facilities and i very much doubt that the once vocal travelers would be keen to go toe to toe with some properly trained and "up for it" member of our forces.

So you're suggesting we impose martial law? Because that is what using the armed forces to act as police is.
And at the end of the day it is a relatively minor problem all said and done. It's not a problem I have to cope with on even a yearly basis, once in a while yes, every few months, no.

 

[Darrell]

You wouldn’t want to know.