Unmarked car, one officer

[PXW]

Driving down the M40 today, and saw a grey unmarked Vectra, with one officer on board. He'd just finished with someone on the hard shoulder and pulled out a car or two in front of me. I followed him for a couple of miles, at speeds indicated up to 80 mph; then a yellow transit came through on the outside lane at probably 85-90mph.

The unmarked car put on its hidden lights and pulled the transit over before it had passed him, by means of poking an arm out of the drivers window and pointing to the hard shoulder over the roof of his car!

Now, those of you on the forum who know these things - can a single officer do this, and could he do the van for speeding (seems unlikely he would have a speed reading). If he can't do him for speeding, why would he have pulled him - just for a friendly chat? And how safe is the gesticulating out of the open window at 75-80mph?!

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

If someone wanted to be really pedantic, the police offer should not have taken a hand off the wheel if travelling at more than 70 mph.

I received training from a police officer whose job it is to train and examine traffic police in high speed driving. It is a golden rule that they must have two hands on the wheel over 70 mph. He failed one police driver for scratching his nose at 80 mph. Until the officer was retrained and passed the test, he was restricted to 70 mph.

But as far as stopping someone for speeding is concerned, as long as the officer has an electronic aid to determine and record the speed of the vehicle in question, one officer is enough. That has been the case since VASCAR was introduced in the late 1970s.

VASCAR is still in use and it times a vehicle over a pre-measured distance, often between two marks painted on the road surface a known distance apart, specifically for this purpose.

Click HERE to see how VASCAR works.

.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Now, those of you on the forum who know these things - can a single officer do this, and could he do the van for speeding (seems unlikely he would have a speed reading). If he can't do him for speeding, why would he have pulled him - just for a friendly chat? And how safe is the gesticulating out of the open window at 75-80mph?!

Can a single Officer do this?

Yes. Absolutely no reason why not.

Could he do the van for speeding?

Yes. The opinion of the Officer corroborated by a callibrated speedo is sufficient. He can give evidence that he was cruising at 80mph and saw the van approach and pass - from your account, the distances involved would be quite enough to convict (anyone guess the legal limit for the Transit on that road?!). No need to resort to any other technical means - though if the Officer had them, most likely to use them.

Could he have just pulled him for a friendly chat?

Yes. (And whether he issued a ticket or not is down to the Officers discretion, so there is no way of knowing what he did).

And how safe is the gesticulating out of the open window at 75-80mph?!

Its not really.

 

[whitenemesis]

Yes. Absolutely no reason why not.



Yes. The opinion of the Officer corroborated by a callibrated speedo is sufficient. He can give evidence that he was cruising at 80mph and saw the van approach and pass - from your account, the distances involved would be quite enough to convict (anyone guess the legal limit for the Transit on that road?!). No need to resort to any other technical means - though if the Officer had them, most likely to use them.



Yes. (And whether he issued a ticket or not is down to the Officers discretion, so there is no way of knowing what he did).



Its not really.

Would that be 60mph?

 

[stevesey]

Thinking about it - one of the fly on the wall shows that was on the other week (the one where the motorcyclist got a phesant in the head) showed a couple of marked traffic cars working with one up. Didn't think this was usual practice, but perhaps it happens quite a lot.

 

[BTB 500]

Would that be 60mph?

For an ordinary Transit it would be 70 since this was on a motorway.

 

[stevesey]

...can a single officer do this,

What about married officers?

 

[DaveK]

Why would he be ' cruising " at a speed of 80mph on a motorway when the legal limit is 70 mph ?

 

[Swiss Toni]

Why would he be ' cruising " at a speed of 80mph on a motorway when the legal limit is 70 mph ?

Because it is his job?

 

[rf065]

For an ordinary Transit it would be 70 since this was on a motorway.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]As a "rule of thumb" any van larger than a Vauxhall Astravan will have a gross weight in excess of 2 tonnes and is therefore subject of the reduced "class of vehicle" speed limits. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Ford Transit, Mercedes Sprinter, Mercedes Vito, Peugeot Expert, Ford Connect vans, for example, are all restricted vans. [/SIZE][/FONT]

Only car derived vans can travel at 70mph on motorways.

Russ

 

[whitenemesis]

http://www.wheelbase.net/legislation-help-desk/speed-limits.html

 

[DaveK]

So there are no circumstances when the speed limits set for our roads apply to the Police then ?

 

[scumbag]

And how safe is the gesticulating out of the open window at 75-80mph?!

I guess he had to make a judgement as to which was the more dangerous. A van exceeding the speed limit by quite some margin, and a momentary signal to the van driver!

I don't want to entertain polcie bashing, but if we up the limit on motorways to 100mph, will will get upset if they pull someone over doing 120mph?

 

[glojo]

Yes. Absolutely no reason why not.



Yes. The opinion of the Officer corroborated by a callibrated speedo is sufficient. He can give evidence that he was cruising at 80mph and saw the van approach and pass - from your account, the distances involved would be quite enough to convict (anyone guess the legal limit for the Transit on that road?!). No need to resort to any other technical means - though if the Officer had them, most likely to use them.



Yes. (And whether he issued a ticket or not is down to the Officers discretion, so there is no way of knowing what he did).



Its not really.

I would also suggest a calibrated stop watch over a set distance, which can be motorway marker posts.

From what I recall the officer simply needs corroboration of their opinion on speed, this can be a speedometer, gadget fitted in the car or stop watch.

I note how the author admits to speeding and my experience of traffic officers is they adopt the attitude, 'Do as I say, not as I do!' It has been known for folks to be reported for following police vehicles that were speeding.

John

 

[scumbag]

Why would he be ' cruising " at a speed of 80mph on a motorway when the legal limit is 70 mph ?

The original poster said, at speeds up to an indicated 80mph.

He may have been testing his speed against know distances, and time taken to see the accuracy of his speedo. There is nothing wrong with that.

Intersting you suggest he was "Cruising" ie, maintaining a steady speed.

 

[st4]

Unless the police officer had his lights on and/or siren on he too is subject to the speed limit applicable to his type of vehicle i.e. 70mph. A trained policeman cruising above this is in theory just as much a criminal as you and me doing the same.

Police officers are citizens, just like you and me. They just have a uniform, but are not above the law. That includes a speed limit. In theory one could do a citizens arrest on a policeman for breaking the speed limit, but alas not in practice.

In an IAM group meeting we had a MOD police officer who specialised in training MOD police to drive. His main area of concern was officers with vans breaking the limits for their vehicles, and driving beyond their abilities.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Unless the police officer had his lights on and/or siren on he too is subject to the speed limit applicable to his type of vehicle i.e. 70mph. A trained policeman cruising above this is in theory just as much a criminal as you and me doing the same.

Bloke on t'internet I'm afraid...

Lights and sirens are not required and never have been. Purely an urban myth.


The exemption to the posted speed limit is;

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire and rescue authority, ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.
Road Traffic Act 1984

Courts have accepted a very broad interpretation of what "police purposes" are, including "being late for an appointment at a magistrates court".!!

So enforcing road traffic legislation is a valid exception in law for exceeding the posted limit.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Police officers are citizens, just like you and me. They just have a uniform, but are not above the law. That includes a speed limit. In theory one could do a citizens arrest on a policeman for breaking the speed limit, but alas not in practice.

The reason you should not do it in practice is that exceeding the posted speed limit is a summary only offence and as a citizen, you do not have any lawful power to make an arrest for such an offence - any arrest would be an unlawful assault and the person subject to it would be within their rights to use any force as would be reasonably necessary to prevent you from inflicting such an assault.

The offence for which you might make a citizens arrest would have to be at least triable either way (theft for example).

And as I mentioned above, the Officer is very likely to fall within the legal excemption anyway, so is not commiting any offence.

 

[st4]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I always thought they needed blues and twos

So in terms of speed limits coppers are above the law. I want to be a policeman now

 

[DansSlk]

So enforcing road traffic legislation is a valid exception in law for exceeding the posted limit.

It's not really right tho is it? When you strip away the padding it all comes down to speeding, would that increase in speed allow him to go about his work any better, i doubt it.

Gotta side with the officer on the other point, the quick gesture was less of a hazard than the speeder at least in my view anyways and at the end of the day if he stick's his hand out of the window and gets it ripped off thats his problem.