V Power Petrol Prices

[Will]

Filled up on the way home earlier instead:

@E55BOF, could be worth checking a different Tesco filling station if you’re passing as I can’t recall paying over £1.50/litre at a few different ones I’ve been to

 

[TimHall]

Calling fuel geeks…

Can anyone point me in the direction of some independent impartial consumer research that can quantify the benefit of high octane petrol?

This is all I can find, and is not at the current 12 ppl+ premium for V Power over standard grade 95

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[Gazwould]

More beneficial with forced induction .

 

[TimHall]

Please explain how? All modern engines have variable timing and knock sensors, so will quickly adapt to different fuels.

 

[E55BOF]

It's likely that premium fuel will have a premium additive package. It will certainly give more power, and/or better fuel consumption, than a non-premium fuel when used in an engine that can take full advantage of it.

Will, where do you buy your Tesco 99? The only Tesco filling station convenient to me is the one in Amersham - affluent area, admittedly, but still...

(When I visit my son near Northwich, I fill up the CLS with V-Power diesel at the village Shell station - cheaper for standard diesel than the local Morrisons, and only a few pence more expensive than Shell ordinary diesel.)

 

[Bellow]

Please explain how? All modern engines have variable timing and knock sensors, so will quickly adapt to different fuels.

And sacrifice torque and efficiency in adapting to lower octane (assuming that the engine is configured to exploit higher octane).

 

[Will]

Will, where do you buy your Tesco 99? The only Tesco filling station convenient to me is the one in Amersham - affluent area, admittedly, but still...

Have a look on PetrolPrices:

Compare UK Petrol & Diesel Prices - PetrolPrices

Compare petrol & diesel prices near you, rant and rave about local stations and earn points by downloading the free mobile app.

www.petrolprices.com

Never really used it myself but most of the prices listed seem to be accurate.

 

[E55BOF]

I used it a little a while ago, but most of my travel is on familiar routes and I never found it terribly useful.

 

[Will]

I guess I’m lucky there - never go out of my way for fuel but try to fill up when passing - there’s six Tesco filling stations within five miles and eleven Shell stations (although my local one is a rip off!) - some of the others seem more reasonable for V-power (156.9/159.9) so usually get to fill up with Momentum 99 at sub-£1.50 without driving out of my way, otherwise happy to use Shell just not to fill up at those prices in my first picture!

Like I say, I know fuel is expensive and I’m not complaining about the cost overall but refuse to pay £20 a tank more for V-power or £16 more than other Premium 99 RON fuel available unless there’s no other option. ‘Every little helps’

 

[TimHall]

And sacrifice torque and efficiency in adapting to lower octane (assuming that the engine is configured to exploit higher octane).

Agreed, but since I‘m not trying to knock seconds off my best Nurburgring lap, I can live with a few less horses. My car is supposed to have 487 of them using 98 RON, there will be enough left to get to work/shops. What I’m trying to get at is what the break even point is for the better but more expensive fuel. I doubt it’s 12-20 pence/litre premium.

 

[Spider10]

If that's a PPP car I can safely say it's more than 487bhp

 

[TimHall]

If that's a PPP car I can safely say it's more than 487bhp

Mine is a stock PPP. What do they actually push out, given the right fuel?

 

[Spider10]

Mine was completely stock 503bhp

 

[E55BOF]

What I’m trying to get at is what the break even point is for the better but more expensive fuel. I doubt it’s 12-20 pence/litre premium.

How would you define 'break even point', though? How do you quantify the benefits of a better additive package if you don't know how, if at all, it's better? How do you value an engine that just feels nicer to drive?

When I buy a car, and the manufacturer recommends I run it on a particular fuel, that's what I run it on. In the Driver's Handbook for the SLK, MB specifically states: "as a temporary measure...you can also use premium unleaded petrol, 95 RON. This may reduce power and increase petrol consumption. Avoid the use of full throttle".

I'm inclined to think the manufacturer probably knows more about their engines than I do.

 

[Bellow]

Agreed, but since I‘m not trying to knock seconds off my best Nurburgring lap, I can live with a few less horses. My car is supposed to have 487 of them using 98 RON, there will be enough left to get to work/shops. What I’m trying to get at is what the break even point is for the better but more expensive fuel. I doubt it’s 12-20 pence/litre premium.

If you have no requirement for all of that power then lower power could have been achieved and more efficiently.

To run a high compression engine on lower octane than it requires incurs inefficiency. The air is over compressed (negative work and increased friction) and the full expansion is denied due to the retarded ignition timing which just throws otherwise exploitable heat down the exhaust pipe - giving the exhaust valves a roasting in the process.
Contrary to popular belief, this happens long before the throttle pedal is at full travel. Half pedal travel is full throttle at half of the rpm the power peaks at so in the mid range this inefficiency is being incurred and the more so because of an engines increased tendency to detonate at lower rpm and the better cylinder filling at closer to the rpm of maximum torque.

The degree of this inefficiency versus the price differential of the higher octane fuel is the cold calculation. The better drivability allied to better managing thermal stress is a personal judgement call.

 

[Will]

I wouldn’t run a high-performance engine on sub standard petrol - rather source the best value for money on the correct premium fuel instead.

When you can buy Momentum 99 for 149.9p/litre why would you want to anyway? It’s not much different to standard 95/E10 - 7p at Tesco but just 4p a litre more than Shell’s basic 95/E10?

 

[AMGeed]

How would you define 'break even point', though? How do you quantify the benefits of a better additive package if you don't know how, if at all, it's better? How do you value an engine that just feels nicer to drive?

When I buy a car, and the manufacturer recommends I run it on a particular fuel, that's what I run it on. In the Driver's Handbook for the SLK, MB specifically states: "as a temporary measure...you can also use premium unleaded petrol, 95 RON. This may reduce power and increase petrol consumption. Avoid the use of full throttle".

I'm inclined to think the manufacturer probably knows more about their engines than I do.

^^^ This.
Why buy a high performance car and penny pinch by running it on a lower grade fuel than is recommended?
Just stick Tesco momentum in the tank and enjoy the car. Forget the high priced Shell fuel. Even I won't pay 10p a litre more than Momentum.

 

[alexanderfoti]

To further the above discussion, the engine will reduce timing AFTER it detects a knock event, which means damage is potentially already being done.

If you run a car designed for higher octane fuel, on lower octane a lot, and use all the power or lug the engine, this detonation may eventually cause premature wear of the engine.

So, whilst its possible to run on lower octane fuel with knock sensors and timing retard etc, its not a good idea.

 

[TimHall]

How would you define 'break even point', though? How do you quantify the benefits of a better additive package if you don't know how, if at all, it's better? How do you value an engine that just feels nicer to drive?

When I buy a car, and the manufacturer recommends I run it on a particular fuel, that's what I run it on. In the Driver's Handbook for the SLK, MB specifically states: "as a temporary measure...you can also use premium unleaded petrol, 95 RON. This may reduce power and increase petrol consumption. Avoid the use of full throttle".

I'm inclined to think the manufacturer probably knows more about their engines than I do.

I was merely asking for a quantitative comparison i.e. will £50 of 95 RON get me as many miles as £50 of V Power 99?

There are so many other variables when you start to look at additives etc. I didn’t buy a 6.2 litre engined car to worry about fuel economy, but I begrudge paying daft 15 pence/litre+ premiums for V Power every fill up. I live in the countryside, so the nearest Momentum is miles away. There is a Shell on the way to the motorway and the nicer roads of Teesdale so that’s what keeps it fed. I see the 98 RON sticker under the fuel flap every time I fill up and have read the manual, so am aware of what Mercedes designed for it.

 

[Spider10]

That must feel flat if run on normal fuel?
Imo I would rather pay the extra than damage anything