W123 Buyers Guide and Tips

[grahamf505]

Hi all,

Does anybody have a buyers guide for the W123 series cars. I love these old Mercs (particularly the Estates). I'd like to know something about the following before I dip my toes in the water:

1) What is the best engine if I'm looking for a good balance of power and economy?
2) Is an auto box a better option than a manual?
3) Which models should I avoid and which are the most desirable?
4) I've heard that timing chains can be problematic. Is this a general rule for all engines or are some engines more vulnerable than others?
5) What should I look out for on the W123 Estate specifically. I've heard that the rear suspension can be a bit tricky (and expensive) to sort
6) Are these cars still a realistic proposition to run as everyday cars or not
7) Is soft suspension a charachteristic of these cars or is it an indication of wear?
8) Would I be better going for a w124 instead? I do all my own home maintenance and like a car I can work on that is not too complex on the ignition/fuel side. So I'm put off by ECUs, catalytic converters and electronic fuel injection systems.

As some might guess by my user name, I am currently a Peugeot 505 Estate owner. I have two (one petrol one diesel) and am thinking about selling the petrol and swoppoing it for a Merc.

Best regards,

Graham :bannana:

 

[jaymanek]

Ill reply to this this evening when i have more time to give a good answer!

Jay

 

[jaymanek]

ok here goes:

1) the 280 is a really nice engine but this doesnt do many to the mile. The balance would be the 230E. Quite spritely and economical.
2) Auto box is nicer, but check that its changing gear nicely. I have a manual and even that is really effortless driving. Up to preference really and what you will be using it for.
3)230TE is desirable. Try to go for a later one to get the better box and better engine after about 1984
4) Timing chains are fine for about 200K miles.
5) The estates are generlally workhorses. Sagging rear ends are common but the shocks are cheap. In fact most parts are v cheap. Look out for rust, the 123's hide rust v well. Look at floor pans, boot sidewells, sunroof, sills etc. A looked after car will have v little rust.
6) I am thinking of buying a 123CE for an every day run around to save mileage on my CLK. They are great if they have been well maintained. There are many low mileage perfect examples out there, albeit less estates...
7) The 123's are the most simple cars in the world to work on. The 230E's have an ecu but doesnt really do much apart from the fuel injection and cant remember the last time i heard about one going wrong.

In my opinion, the 123 is much more nicer looking and overall a very very cheap car to maintain and run. There are more 124 estates out there and you wont find much difference in price. Its really up to personal preference. I prefer the 123 as its a more relaxed drive and i prefer the curved design.

There is a 123 forum here: http://uk.msnusers.com/W123Club/general.msnw

We are all a bit biased on there!

Good luck

Jay

 

[kusanku]

Hi all,

Does anybody have a buyers guide for the W123 series cars. I love these old Mercs (particularly the Estates). I'd like to know something about the following before I dip my toes in the water:

1) What is the best engine if I'm looking for a good balance of power and economy?
2) Is an auto box a better option than a manual?
3) Which models should I avoid and which are the most desirable?
4) I've heard that timing chains can be problematic. Is this a general rule for all engines or are some engines more vulnerable than others?
5) What should I look out for on the W123 Estate specifically. I've heard that the rear suspension can be a bit tricky (and expensive) to sort
6) Are these cars still a realistic proposition to run as everyday cars or not
7) Is soft suspension a charachteristic of these cars or is it an indication of wear?
8) Would I be better going for a w124 instead? I do all my own home maintenance and like a car I can work on that is not too complex on the ignition/fuel side. So I'm put off by ECUs, catalytic converters and electronic fuel injection systems.

Hi Graham,
I had a 230E for nearly 6 years as an everyday car. Most reliable car I've ever owned. Got rid of it simply because I now do a lot more driving, about half of which is in heavy traffic i.e. 8 miles each way to work in a solid traffic jam. The fuel consumption got daft under these driving conditions. In response to your questions.
1) I agree the 230 is the best engine to go for. I considered changing to a 2.8, but was found it to be a lot rougher. Could not notice a real difference in performance. The 2.8 appeared to represent near V8 fuel consumption, but without the performance.
2) Once you are used to an auto, you'll never want a manual again (unless it's in a performance car). Particularly if you do urban driving.
3) There's more of a market for the coupe, but that means it will cost you more to buy one. Depends on what you want to use it for.
4) My understanding is that the timing chain issue applies to the 4 cylinder engines, which have a simplex timing chain (believe the 6 cylinder variants have a duplex chain). This means on the 2.0 and 2.3 at least, the timing chain is prone to snapping. Mark Cosovic (123 expert) recommends changing it every 30k. My local independent speciallist (WDM cars) recommended every 50k, which was the advice I followed. It's not worth the risk of leaving it.
5) Don't know, sorry.
6) Depends on the kind of driving you do. Overall, I would say yes. I never had any trouble getting parts, and if you are that way inclined, they are simple enough to service yourself. The only drawback is fuel consumption. Using mine for short journeys, in awful traffic, I was probably getting about 10mpg - but we are talking absolute worst driving conditions possible. On a run, got about 30mpg, which I though was ok, until I got my 500 SEC, and found I got 25mpg out of that. Even the diesels are not particularly frugal.
7) they do have a soft suspension, but if you are noticing a lot of bumps in the road, that's a sign of wear. The ride on these cars is really smooth. Conversely, the handling is awful, so don't even think of taking a corner fast, or braking suddenly in the wet.
8) I believe the timing chain issue was sorted out on the 124, and you may well find a nicer example as they are newer. The 123 is perfect for DIY maintenance, and I think they look a lot nicer than a 124. But they did stop making them 20 years ago, so it may take a while to source out a good one.

Other thing to look out for is the seat bases, which are prone to collapse around 100k miles. People all sorts of DIY fixes, but at the end of the day, a bust one needs replacing, It makes an enormous difference to the driving pleasure of the car. Collapsed bases are not a reason to walk away, but they are a reason to knock the price down. I got a second hand base for £50, but that was some years ago.

My everyday car is now a diesel c-class, which is undoubtedly the most sensible car in the MB range for my current motoring needs. But I rather have a 123 any day.
Good luck finding one.

 

[andy_k]

I agree with all the comment so far, the 230 engine is a peach, well maintained it will give more than adequate performance and great economy but watch out for that timing chain, yes, it's a simplex chain and yes they snap but that doesn't mean the engines are not capable of astronomical mileages. The problem was solved on the W124 when they replaced it with a duplex chain

The self levelling suspension on the W123 is a doddle to work on compared to that of the W124 but either is possible by a determined home mechanic.

I'd suggest buying a W124 if you are looking for an estate. Many of the W123s have been used as "builders vans" etc as they are reasonablty cheap and "disposable"

As for styling, I must be the odd one out as I prefer the styling of the W124. When it comes to driving them they seem a little bit more refined with better road manners.

What to look for,

1, as Jay said, W123s do go rusty, check all around the wells in the rear, the sills etc etc - once they start rusting it can involve a lot of welding to sort it out and genuine panels aren't cheap

2, check the suspension for any leaks or sagging

3, give the interior a good check, the vinyl on W123 dashboards often seems to split and are an absolute pain to replace.

4, check the electrics and make sure the sunroof (if fitted) works smoothly

5, check the engine over. Good oil pressure when the engine is warm is a must.

HTH

Andy

 

[kusanku]

There's a 230E featured in MB enthusiast that has done 970k miles. The 2.3 engines do go on forever, but evidently can develop a noisy top end after about 150k, according to articles I have read. Having said that, mine had done about 170k when I got rid of it, and was as quiet and smooth as when I bought it years earlier with about 90k on the clock. I think the frequency of oil changes has a lot to do with this. By contrast, all the 2.8 cars I looked at had much noisier engines than my 2.3, and one of these had only 64k on the clock, with FSH.

 

[grahamf505]

Mercedes W123 buyers guide

Dear All,

Many, many thanks for your replies and help. Much appreciated. The 230 seems to be the one to go for then. What about the 200? I assume its basically the same block and head as the 230. Is it likely to be a little underpowered?

Graham

 

[Dieselman]

Surprisingly no one has mentioned the diesels much. There are three engines to choose from 200, 240 and 300. The 200 and 240 could best be described as a bit slow, especially as autos.
The 300 has a better turn of speed and is more refined, to a point.

All these engines are ultra reliable and many go on to intergalactic mileages, like 500K +. These are claimed to be the most reliable cars Mercedes ever produced.

 

[ohcaptainron]

Greetings,
I too would recommend a 300TDT diesel wagon, I purchased mine new in 1985, currently has 250,000 miles and very reliable. The cars weak points are the auto climate control A/C.
Valves need to be adjusted every 15,000, other than that bullit proof. The auto leveling rear suspension does not use standard shock absorbers, rather nitrogen filled cells that leak over time, very easy to replace and not costly. The struts themselves seem to last forever but if they need to be replaced can be expensive. In the US the cars have a cult like following and are appreciating, last chrome Mercedes. Good luck in your search , while not the most modern vehicles they are some of the best Mercedes has ever made and are very endearing.
Ron
2005 E320 CDI
2003 E55 AMG
2001 E320 AWD WAGON
1993 E300D 2.5 Turbo
1985 300TDT

 

[kusanku]

Good luck in your search , while not the most modern vehicles they are some of the best Mercedes has ever made and are very endearing.
Ron
2005 E320 CDI
2003 E55 AMG
2001 E320 AWD WAGON
1993 E300D 2.5 Turbo
1985 300TDT[/QUOTE]

Hi Ron,
is your 300TDT a turbodiesel? If so, is it RHD? Had a discussion about these resently. I know the turbodiesel was not standard in the UK, but have heard it said that no turbodiesels were made at all in RHD. I did encounter one last year, but the owner informed me it was a conversion. Just interested.
Simon

 

[V12]

Hi,
The 230E engine was not sorted in the W124 immediately, it is the exact same engine (bar slightly different injection system) till 88/89, when they went to a duplex chain and a couple of other differnces, but still the same block.
The 200 123 only came in carb form, in the W124 was available as an injection engine also.

Whomever said about not a noticeably increase in performance between the 230 and 280, the 280 (110 engine) may be a considerably older design, but none the less a good example will show that it is still a very impressive performer although economy is great.

The 230E (102 engine) is a tried and proven engine, used in the 123, 124 and 190, over many years, with many variations around the 2.0 engine. The 2.3i is a relatively big power increase over the 2.0 and roughly the same economy..

The 230E has a couple of Relays/ecu's, one for the ignition, one for the fuel pump, one for the ABS (optional) and also for the cruise (optional)

The rear suspension is not much of a problem, the self levelling valve is the most common thing to go, which is the most expensive single item, but still cheap second hand...

Seat bases as has been mentioned, but they are only £30...

Steering boxes ALWAYS have wear and steering feels sloppy, but a new box or actually adjusting it, as some mechanics don't know about is a quick and easy fix.

The diesels are all very very reliable, as said the 300 is the only one with any go, and a decent one of those does go ok for an old diesel.
Bear in mind they are not like ultra modern diesels in their economy, but still noticeably better than the petrols.
The torque of the 300D is great for towing and plenty of weight.

HTH

Btw, if anyone wants a 123 300CD, yes a 3.0 diesel coupe RHD, we have one for sale...absolutely mint engine in it!!!

Ricky

 

[Ian B Walker]

Btw, if anyone wants a 123 300CD, yes a 3.0 diesel coupe RHD, we have one for sale...absolutely mint engine in it!!!

Ricky

wow, didnt know that coupe's came with a diesel option, that has to be a rareity.

 

[V12]

They do not in RHD, so very rare indeed.

This has had everything lifted from a saloon and been converted.

Ricky

 

[ohcaptainron]

Good luck in your search , while not the most modern vehicles they are some of the best Mercedes has ever made and are very endearing.
Ron
2005 E320 CDI
2003 E55 AMG
2001 E320 AWD WAGON
1993 E300D 2.5 Turbo
1985 300TDT

Hi Ron,
is your 300TDT a turbodiesel? If so, is it RHD? Had a discussion about these resently. I know the turbodiesel was not standard in the UK, but have heard it said that no turbodiesels were made at all in RHD. I did encounter one last year, but the owner informed me it was a conversion. Just interested.
Simon[/QUOTE]


Hi Simon, my car is left hand drive and it is the 3.0 l turbo diesel, auto trans, this was the only available drivetrain in the US.

 

[grahamf505]

W123 Estate......Maybe have found one

I'm going to look at a 1984 W123 2.3 TE Ltr Auto Estate tomorrow. Its done 195K miles and has a Merc service history up to about 150K. It all looks very clean and tidy.


A couple of other questions, if anyone can help me with these today!
I will need to replace the timing chain and tensioners for piece of mind. I'm a pretty competent home mechanic (you have to be with peugeot 505's - anyone ever heard of No. 1 Cylinder at the flywheel - well this is the way Peugeot do it!). My level of capability is replacing clutches, steering components, timing belts, ignition and fuel systems, etc. so I don't expect this to be beyond my capabilities if I take my time with it.

Does anyone have a view on:

a) cost of the parts
b) the need for any specialist tools
c) the best source of a set of techincal instructions (Do Haynes do a manual for the 230 TE?)

Also, will the 230 TE run unleaded. According to Honest John of the Daily Telegraph, the valve guides on the 230 engines suffered premature wear from running unleaded, but not sure if this applied to Later (i.e. circa 1984) and earlier ones.

Many thanks for your help in anticipation.

Graham

 

[kusanku]

My 230E ran perfectly on unleaded, but the vendor (who did not seem overly trustworthy) said it had been converted by a main dealer. It did have a sticker on the inside of the flap over the petrol cap which stated "leaded or unleaded". Pretty certain a 1984 model will be ok as far as valve guides go. I had the timing chain changed twice during my ownership. The first time I was only charged about £55 (by a mechanic who knew his stuff pretty well). Second time, it was about £110, by someone who was not as up on 123s. Either way, your parts bill is going to be well under £100. A chap with a 123 in the next street was quoted something mad like £400 by local main dealer to do the same job. Have never attempted to do the job myself. Hope that's of some help.
Simon

 

[rockefeller]

w123 Buyers Guide

Hi everyone

Apologies if this has appeared before but I just saw the enquiry. The following site has a good buyers guide. If the link dosen't work, go to www.w123.net and click on Helpline. http://www.w123.net/ I have a 1985 230te here in Australia and can't give it enough praise. Most reliable car I have ever owned.

Cheers
Rocky