W124 as a daily driver

[E28 Bert]

Hi All,

Due to a change in job and not having to travel as far I'm looking to buy a W124 - probably a E280 / 300E / E320.

Do you think it's realistic for me to use of one these as a daily driver, I will be doing about 240 miles a week, mainly on A roads and motorways.

Im fairly competent home mechanic so quite happy doing the usual serviceable things.

So, what sort of things do I need to look out for when buying a W124? Other than front wings, where do they rust?

Are there many mechanical / electrical issues I need to look out for?

And finally, what sort of fuel consumption should I expect?

Thanks
Rob

 

[WDB124066]

Mid twenties. Parts are becoming expensive if buying Genuine, there is a good buying guide put together by Billy on here, maybe do a search.
I use one of mine as a daily driver - it's a lovely place to be if you find the right car but there are other cheaper options of course.

 

[hotrodder]

They're fine as a daily driver and as reliable as any car that's looked after. Only drawback to older stuff IMO is higher fuel costs which is obviously mileage dependant and offset by lower running costs elsewhere i.e. usually simpler/cheaper to service/repair than modern stuff.
Mines let me down (without stranding me) twice in 8 years, both times a dead alternator- the first died the day i bought it and after getting it rebuilt it popped again this summer. Don't keep a proper track of running costs but i doubt i've spent more than £300ish a year in maintanence most of which has been parts... one big/spendy job dropping the rear subframe to replace all the fuel/brake/SLS lines and various smaller ones like new waterpump, rad, some front suspension bits, exhaust etc. That's on a 217k example that cost ~ £1k

I only do ~ 5k miles/year and a 320te has been my daily since 2008... paid someone to do the waterpump as it's a fiddly one on the m104 and had paid help for the subframe as it's soooo much easier with a proper car lift but no more difficult or expensive to run than any other old car i've ran as a daily

Overall condition is everything when buying, plenty of guides scattered about the internet listing the common weak points many of them rehashings of one written by Nick Froome (Bolide on the forum and the guy behind w124 dot co dot uk, can't post a link as the forum censors it due to illegal advertising/not sponsoring the forum or something along those lines ). Somewhere on his site you'll find fuel consumption figures and the 25mpg all round / 31mpg best case scenario for an e320 is bang on IME but to get low 30s need to be sensible on m/ways and avoid ragging it out of roundabouts. They're brutal on fuel in heavy stop/start traffic or if you 'properly' explore the upper rpm regularly

Front wings are cosmetic, they very good at hiding the more serious rust... sills, jacking points, inner front wings, forward rear subframe mounts and on estates the rear side windows and fuel tank

320s (and the 300-24) have non replaceable ball joints in the lower track control arms so what's a cheap job on the smaller engined examples is 'kin spendy as genuine LCAs are ~ £400ea give or take (sport chassis are more ££). All Mbs from '93 (when the later multivalve engines appeared) to '95ish came with comedy biodegradable wiring looms and the engine harnesses rot from the heat. New ones are 'kin spendy but they can be repaired/rebuilt for much less. The origional h/gasket had a couple of weak spots but most will have been replaced by now

Personally i'm beginning to think that, some at least, genuine parts are getting crappier as well as more expensive... MOT'd mine on Sat morning and it needs new exhaust rubbers again, i've fitted cheap pattern ones, more expensive pattern ones and genuine examples and they all rot stupidly quickly. It's not 'cause their strained as most of the exhaust is genuine and the eberspacher back box fits as perfectly as the rest of the system. Same deal with various other genuine rubber bits i've fitted. On the plus side the origional cat is still working well

 

[grober]

The 300E is the simpler car than the later twin cams. It also comes from the solvent based paint system era. Find a good one and it could be a reliable daily runner. Main thing to watch for is a faulty EZL ignition unit assuming sound bodywork- rear sill jacking points and rear subframe front mounts are particularly prone to MOT failure. If you are used to modern turbocharged diesels stay clear of the normally aspirated diesel models last for ever but they are slow by modern standards

 

[Charles Morgan]

I love the multivalve diesels, just need more revs to move them off the line, but they are very comfortable and the engines are unstressed. Gives about 34mpg. Suspension and bodywork are key to getting a decent one.

 

[alabbasi]

No problem as a daily driver but more modern cars are easier to live with.

 

[d w124]

As someone that drives a 320 daily I would say get a 300e
In terms of mpg they're $hite but saying that most of my driving is on traffic

 

[219]

I have ran several , from when they were current models , up to about four years ago , many of them doing significant mileages , the highest being my 430,000 mile 300TE-24 .

I'm currently running a R129 300SL-24 , which is basically the same car under the skin , and did 37,000 trouble free miles between the last two MOTs .

I have also ran numerous 190's , W123's and W126's in recent years , maintained by myself , and all have been reliable daily drivers .

 

[anfieldassasin]

I daily drive my 300ce and my 230ce before that and it's fine. Fuel consumption is pants but I only do a short 10 miles a day in town. Any car you buy you should budget for initial repair costs as the cars are old now and whichever one you will buy will I keep have some initial things that will need sorting. But once done they are perfectly usable daily. I use the forum and diy to keep maintenance cost down also.

I would recommend the single cam 6 cylinder m103.. Smoother than the 4 cylinder and more refined on motor way but also easier to work on than the double overhead cam engines.

 

[Mike Walker]

As stated above - I had a W124 300TE which I used daily and was a lovely drive however fuel consumption was not great. Drank oil, roof light leaked, rear windows on both sides leaked and was looking at lots of £££ to put it right. Would have another any day!

 

[E28 Bert]

Mid twenties. Parts are becoming expensive if buying Genuine, there is a good buying guide put together by Billy on here, maybe do a search.
I use one of mine as a daily driver - it's a lovely place to be if you find the right car but there are other cheaper options of course.

Thanks, I'll have a look for the buying guide.

 

[E28 Bert]

They're fine as a daily driver and as reliable as any car that's looked after. Only drawback to older stuff IMO is higher fuel costs which is obviously mileage dependant and offset by lower running costs elsewhere i.e. usually simpler/cheaper to service/repair than modern stuff.
Mines let me down (without stranding me) twice in 8 years, both times a dead alternator- the first died the day i bought it and after getting it rebuilt it popped again this summer. Don't keep a proper track of running costs but i doubt i've spent more than £300ish a year in maintanence most of which has been parts... one big/spendy job dropping the rear subframe to replace all the fuel/brake/SLS lines and various smaller ones like new waterpump, rad, some front suspension bits, exhaust etc. That's on a 217k example that cost ~ £1k

I only do ~ 5k miles/year and a 320te has been my daily since 2008... paid someone to do the waterpump as it's a fiddly one on the m104 and had paid help for the subframe as it's soooo much easier with a proper car lift but no more difficult or expensive to run than any other old car i've ran as a daily

Overall condition is everything when buying, plenty of guides scattered about the internet listing the common weak points many of them rehashings of one written by Nick Froome (Bolide on the forum and the guy behind w124 dot co dot uk, can't post a link as the forum censors it due to illegal advertising/not sponsoring the forum or something along those lines ). Somewhere on his site you'll find fuel consumption figures and the 25mpg all round / 31mpg best case scenario for an e320 is bang on IME but to get low 30s need to be sensible on m/ways and avoid ragging it out of roundabouts. They're brutal on fuel in heavy stop/start traffic or if you 'properly' explore the upper rpm regularly

Front wings are cosmetic, they very good at hiding the more serious rust... sills, jacking points, inner front wings, forward rear subframe mounts and on estates the rear side windows and fuel tank

320s (and the 300-24) have non replaceable ball joints in the lower track control arms so what's a cheap job on the smaller engined examples is 'kin spendy as genuine LCAs are ~ £400ea give or take (sport chassis are more ££). All Mbs from '93 (when the later multivalve engines appeared) to '95ish came with comedy biodegradable wiring looms and the engine harnesses rot from the heat. New ones are 'kin spendy but they can be repaired/rebuilt for much less. The origional h/gasket had a couple of weak spots but most will have been replaced by now

Personally i'm beginning to think that, some at least, genuine parts are getting crappier as well as more expensive... MOT'd mine on Sat morning and it needs new exhaust rubbers again, i've fitted cheap pattern ones, more expensive pattern ones and genuine examples and they all rot stupidly quickly. It's not 'cause their strained as most of the exhaust is genuine and the eberspacher back box fits as perfectly as the rest of the system. Same deal with various other genuine rubber bits i've fitted. On the plus side the origional cat is still working well

View attachment 61054

Sounds like a lot of problems are common with BMW E28's, sills, jacking points, rear subframe issues and mounts. I was hoping the Merc might be little more resistant to the rust than the BMW, although I don't use the BMW for commuting, it's strictly a summer weekend car.

I'm quite used to minimising my fuel consumption as I current squeeze 70+ mpg from my Audi......although driving the M27 in the mornings doesn't allow you to drive using the upper rev range, so hope I could squeeze 30+ mpg from the Merc.

Is it only the E320 that has the non replacable ball joints or does the E280 have that as well?

With the the loom, does that have a manufacturer date up by the bulk head or is it a case of asking the owner for proof of work to show its been done?

 

[E28 Bert]

The 300E is the simpler car than the later twin cams. It also comes from the solvent based paint system era. Find a good one and it could be a reliable daily runner. Main thing to watch for is a faulty EZL ignition unit assuming sound bodywork- rear sill jacking points and rear subframe front mounts are particularly prone to MOT failure. If you are used to modern turbocharged diesels stay clear of the normally aspirated diesel models last for ever but they are slow by modern standards

How do I check for a faulty EZL ignition unit?

No problem as a daily driver but more modern cars are easier to live with.

I have a modern car and find it very dull on a daily basis to drive, I did consider swapping my Audi in for a few year old C250 Cdi estate but the problems on these modern cars scare me and are normally quite expensive to fix unless you want to spend out £££ on a aftermarket warranty.

 

[BlackC55]

My best advice is to get it on a lift before you buy it. They are now getting on a bit and are showing their age a little.

The sportline cars have the fixed ball joints.

As for proof. As well as head gasket work. They like to leak oil on a 104 engine.

 

[E28 Bert]

My best advice is to get it on a lift before you buy it. They are now getting on a bit and are showing their age a little.

The sportline cars have the fixed ball joints.

As for proof. As well as head gasket work. They like to leak oil on a 104 engine.

Thanks, I was going to pop in and see you as you are not far from me and I keep reading good things about you

Are you able to supply and fit a new loom that these suffer from and how much is it likely to cost?

 

[alabbasi]

Sounds like a lot of problems are common with BMW E28's, sills, jacking points, rear subframe issues and mounts

Suspension on a W124 is far more sophisticated than the E28's. Somehow BMW managed to make the E28 drive 10 times nicer. If you're used to DD an E28, you're going to be find DD'ing a Mercedes of the same era. MB's of the 80's are probably the best built cars ever made but the little things can nickel and dime you. I moved from a W210 to a W126 and back to a W210. I was enamored by the bank vault quality of the 560SEC but every weekend gave me a project. The E420 that came before and after felt nowhere near as solid but never EVER gave me a problem.

 

[hotrodder]

Sounds like a lot of problems are common with BMW E28's, sills, jacking points, rear subframe issues and mounts. I was hoping the Merc might be little more resistant to the rust than the BMW, although I don't use the BMW for commuting, it's strictly a summer weekend car.

I'm quite used to minimising my fuel consumption as I current squeeze 70+ mpg from my Audi......although driving the M27 in the mornings doesn't allow you to drive using the upper rev range, so hope I could squeeze 30+ mpg from the Merc.

Is it only the E320 that has the non replacable ball joints or does the E280 have that as well?

With the the loom, does that have a manufacturer date up by the bulk head or is it a case of asking the owner for proof of work to show its been done?

MBs rust at least as much BMWs of that era, the 124s are just good at hiding the serious rot while the 210 that replaced it suffered way more cosmetic rust but less structural stuff

AIUI the 280 could have LCAs with replacable ball joints but isn't guarenteed to. While it's often said to be a sportchassis thing it's actually to do with brake size, specifically clearance between the disc and the LCA with the later one piece version offering more than the type with replacable ball joints. I wouldn't let it put you off a particular car, i mentioned it more because when buying a car with tired, or at least ancient, balljoints the difference is less than £50 in parts and a simple job vs getting on for a grand in parts and way more in labour + a full alignment afterwoods. The difference between them is obvious...

and a different view http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_brakes/LCA_early_vs_late/balljoints_both4.jpg

Engine looms should have a date tag hidden somewhere near the battery (probably under stuff, maybe the battery tray itself?). Do an image search for w124 engine loom and you'll see how bad they can get, clues can be found near the thermostat and a few other smaller sensors where the insulation on individual wires can be seen... often brittle and cracked but nowhere near as bad as sections of the loom exposed to more heat like the MAF and LT feeds for the coils but you can't inspect those without cutting into the loom covering
New looms are over a grand these days but can be rebuilt for way less. Again not a deal breaker (much nicer job than fixing rust), just something that need to be aware of when buying one, like you say a receipt for the work/new loom is ideal and you'd think given how much they cost most people would keep the recipt with the cars paperwork. The throttle body (ETA, electronic throttle actuator) can also suffer the same fate and are eye wateringly spendy new. Depending on spec the upper engine loom can include a section the feeds the ETA or it can be seperate but the wiring inside the ETA also rots (again can be rebuilt)

As said h/gaskets on these typically fail in a way that results in external oil leaks from the front or back corners (again google will get you pics including changes made to the gasket). They also often leak oil from the upper timing case seal which can be mistaken for h/gasket easily. That leak is almost standard if whoever owned the thing treated the max mark on the dipstick as a target, the oil capacity on the m104 was reduced by 1/2 litre or so at some point and shouldn't run the oil level more than 2/3 or so between min/max (2 litres between the marks)

 

[bolide]

I think all that American stuff about LCAs and early & late cars is a massive red herring. In my experience of UK cars, the only non-replaceable balljoints are on 320s and 300-24s (might be 300s as well, I sold very few pre-facelift cars)

Many W124 looms are now NLA. The last price I got for one was on 21/8/2015 when a loom for an E280 was £1572.00 retail plus vat. New ones have a Delphi tag near the battery

Nick Froome

 

[GP801]

A properly maintained 124 is perfectly usable as a daily driver - there are still loads of them as taxis all over the world. Fuel consumption is an issue - our 280 does around 24-25 mpg in general use. Might just get to 30-31 on long motorway runs. The problem is most by now will have had minimal maintenance. Ours appeared to be well maintained when we bought it - receipt for new loom etc. Having said that over the next 2 years we had pretty much all the usual 124 issues - headgasket, oil seals, coil packs, suspension bushes, even a new ECU that had been fried by the dodgy coil packs etc..... Having said that it never actually failed to start.
As for rust its had some cosmetic work around the jacking points but structurally they were fine. It had been Dinitrolled so the rest is still corrosion free.
Now had it 6 years and its passed the last 3 MOTs with no advisories. Odd things still crop up but nothing major.
I previously ran an E28 for 13 years (only a 518i) which I loved. Personally I think the 124 is a better long term proposition

 

[219]

The one recurring thing with several of mine , once they were getting a bit older , was rusty pipes underneath at the back - both brake pipes and SLS pipes on my estates . These are a PITA to replace around the rear suspension .

I never had trouble with fuel pipes , but I wouldn't expect them to be immune .