W124-Lowering

[RBYCC]

I had a search on eurocarparts website and I found that they are selling H&R springs at a great price in April with the 25% discount offer on all car parts!

Maybe I should go for H&R. The problem is that I cannot find the part number for my Car on H&R website.

The W124 with the I6 takes the H&R 29569-1.
You have a M102 I4, about 150lbs + lighter then the M103 I6.
You can compensate by add/removing spring pads.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I still do see it with the 'strut' braces, as there's no strut only a shock. Hey, it's good we're not all the same.

And no matter what you say, there are different shocks. One inch is a lot to some people

Cracking looking M103TT you have there, impressed. I suspect a labour of love. Enjoy you lucky man.

 

[RBYCC]

I still do see it with the 'strut' braces, as there's no strut only a shock. Hey, it's good we're not all the same.

And no matter what you say, there are different shocks. One inch is a lot to some people

Cracking looking M103TT you have there, impressed. I suspect a labour of love. Enjoy you lucky man.

I am beginning to think that you are joking

Yes there is a "strut" on the front of the 124 chassis.
The design of the 300 Class ( which is how it was originally designated ) has a "compact damper strut front suspension"
It's not a MacPherson strut design as Merc separated the spring and the damper to attain better suspension geometry.
The rear is a multilink suspension with a shock absorber.

And the shocks are not different as you continue to insist.
Take the Sport apart, remove the travel limiter and they are "same-same"

 

[balge]

I still do see it with the 'strut' braces, as there's no strut only a shock. Hey, it's good we're not all the same.
And no matter what you say, there are different shocks. One inch is a lot to some people
Cracking looking M103TT you have there, impressed. I suspect a labour of love. Enjoy you lucky man.

'Strut' is another name for a shock absorber. Can't quite see on the car pictured (top motor btw) but most of the strut-braces I've come across actually brace the towers rather than the actual shocks?

 

[John Jones Jr]

'Strut' is another name for a shock absorber. Can't quite see on the car pictured (top motor btw) but most of the strut-braces I've come across actually brace the towers rather than the actual shocks?

Yes, and most cars have what is commonly known as 'strut' i.e. MacPherson Strut, which is shock & coil spring combined. What his car has just like the W201 , W202 etc is only a shock mounted into the inner wing, the spring is separately mounted, a Merc design (that's rather good). That's why one never fit's coilover suspension on these cars with out reinforcing the shock tower because it's unable to support both shock & spring. Thus, my point that 'strut' braces as they were referred do nothing imo because there's no spring, unless coilovers are fitted. So, I would spend the money these cost elsewhere on the suspension. As I said earlier each to their own.

 

[balge]

It's still bracing the top of the towers to prevent flex due to suspension loads though

 

[mazza]

Yes, and most cars have what is commonly known as 'strut' i.e. MacPherson Strut, which is shock & coil spring combined. What his car has just like the W201 , W202 etc is only a shock mounted into the inner wing, the spring is separately mounted, a Merc design (that's rather good). That's why one never fit's coilover suspension on these cars with out reinforcing the shock tower because it's unable to support both shock & spring. Thus, my point that 'strut' braces as they were referred do nothing imo because there's no spring, unless coilovers are fitted. So, I would spend the money these cost elsewhere on the suspension. As I said earlier each to their own.

Hi JJ

I think I understand your point mate...its been covered a lot in the 190 forum etc. mainly by people that never bought or fitted a strut brace.

but let me just ask you 1 question, have you ever driven a w201/w124 with strut braces front/rear?

all the best mate

 

[John Jones Jr]

Hi JJ

I think I understand your point mate...its been covered a lot in the 190 forum etc. mainly by people that never bought or fitted a strut brace.

but let me just ask you 1 question, have you ever driven a w201/w124 with strut braces front/rear?

all the best mate

No, I haven't and the reason is because I see not real point - other than adding weight and spending money, like I already mentioned the cost of these f&r bars would imo be better spent on higher spec shocks for example. I'd have a different opinion if the bars or 'braces' were directly connecting the both the spring & shock as per the majority of cars. But, hey that's me..... & one or two others I know.

 

[mazza]

No, I haven't and the reason is because I see not real point - other than adding weight and spending money, like I already mentioned the cost of these f&r bars would imo be better spent on higher spec shocks for example. I'd have a different opinion if the bars or 'braces' were directly connecting the both the spring & shock as per the majority of cars. But, hey that's me..... & one or two others I know.

Hi JJ

that's fair enough mate, everyone is entitled to their own opinions

I have driven both and so have others that I know and all I can say is, it makes a bit of a difference.

all the best
mazza

 

[RBYCC]

Yes, and most cars have what is commonly known as 'strut' i.e. MacPherson Strut, which is shock & coil spring combined. What his car has just like the W201 , W202 etc is only a shock mounted into the inner wing, the spring is separately mounted, a Merc design (that's rather good). That's why one never fit's coilover suspension on these cars with out reinforcing the shock tower because it's unable to support both shock & spring. Thus, my point that 'strut' braces as they were referred do nothing imo because there's no spring, unless coilovers are fitted. So, I would spend the money these cost elsewhere on the suspension. As I said earlier each to their own.

Now I know you really don't understand....
Yes MacPherson is a "common strut", but the 300 Class as I previously stated also uses a front strut.

Your issue is not with me for being accurate in terminology but with the Mercedes engineers who disagree with how you view their design




Please enough of your obfuscation in picking what is correct to all but you apart...it takes the focus off of the OP's query

P.S.

One never fits coilovers to a 124 as the suspension is not designed for such an application. The stock suspension design is extremely adequate for a car of it's age.
The desire to install coilovers on a non track car is purely a "boy racer' mentality.
What is your experience in competitive motor sports ?

If you truly want to educate yourself technically then look up "SAE 831045-FRONT AND REAR SUSPENSION OF THE NEW MERCEDES MODEL W201" published in 1983.
This was the prelude to the design of the later 300 Class.

Ed A.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Hi JJ

that's fair enough mate, everyone is entitled to their own opinions

I have driven both and so have others that I know and all I can say is, it makes a bit of a difference.

all the best
mazza

I respect your opinion and the guy with the M103TT opinion too. But, as you said 'it makes a bit of difference' just doesn't cut it for me. I'd be happier with better shocks.

Hey, btw I'm just in the process of ordering another set of shocks and it's a toss up between B12's or H&R Cup Kit what do you reckon? Neither set I've used before. Cheers.

 

[RBYCC]

No, I haven't and the reason is because I see not real point - other than adding weight

Aluminum, adds less then the weight of a gallon of petrol.

and spending money,

About 50 sterling front and rear

like I already mentioned the cost of these f&r bars would imo be better spent on higher spec shocks for example. I'd have a different opinion if the bars or 'braces' were directly connecting the both the spring & shock as per the majority of cars. But, hey that's me..... & one or two others I know.

As the expert what "higher spec shocks" would you suggest and why...
Feel free to be technical with me as I've been in competitive motor sports for almost fifty years...

I've tracked everything from a DB6 A-M Vantage with double acting rear lever shocks to a CLK63BS with modified KW coilovers..

And your real world track experience ?

 

[mazza]

Hey, btw I'm just in the process of ordering another set of shocks and it's a toss up between B12's or H&R Cup Kit what do you reckon? Neither set I've used before. Cheers.

H&R get my vote

I love the bilstein shocks..but not too keen on eibach springs, I cannot work with companies that dont give out the springs rates..hehe

the springs rates for H&R cup kit are

55N/mm front and around 65N/mm rear.

dont let the numbers scare you..its only about 20-25% stiffer compared to oem springs.

all the best
mazza

 

[John Jones Jr]

Aluminum, adds less then the weight of a gallon of petrol.

and spending money,

About 50 sterling front and rear



As the expert what "higher spec shocks" would you suggest and why...
Feel free to be technical with me as I've been in competitive motor sports for almost fifty years...

I've tracked everything from a DB6 A-M Vantage with double acting rear lever shocks to a CLK63BS with modified KW coilovers..

And your real world track experience ?

Steady on!

1. Fact: they add weight. Wow, only 3.5kg (?) for the pair, that's little but it's still weight.

2. Fact: they cost money. Wow, only £50 for a pair, alloy at that. Where in the U.K. sells at that price?

3. Fact: I'd personally be much happier with better shocks for my money. Wow, guess what, that's my choice.

4. Fact: I've not stated I'm an expert or implied (unlike your good self it seems), I've given my opinion on the OP's questions re: lower springs and disagreed with you, about Bilstein HD & B6 shocks being the same. And now, I'm disagreeing with you about those bars/braces - the cost & the benefit. So, what? If I'm wrong, even on all counts I can handle it.

5.Fact: I've no 'real world' track experience, well some but it really ain't worth taking about. Do, I actually need to have a couple of hundred track days and few 6 & 24hr races under my belt to comment...don't think so. And if I do, everybody here better watch out if they give an opinion without having major track experience with you about!

Now, this has got out of hand and plainly there's no need for it and maybe I should have not bothered to retort but I have and I'm leaving it at that. I obviously rocked your boat but it was unintentional. I think my previous posts reflect that. Maybe you might care to read them again.

Over & out

 

[John Jones Jr]

H&R get my vote

I love the bilstein shocks..but not too keen on eibach springs, I cannot work with companies that dont give out the springs rates..hehe

the springs rates for H&R cup kit are

55N/mm front and around 65N/mm rear.

dont let the numbers scare you..its only about 20-25% stiffer compared to oem springs.

all the best
mazza

O.k., thanks for that I'll take it onboard. Is the Cup Kit similar to B6's with H&R springs, would you say? One more question if you don't mind any experience/views on the Touring Cup Kit (40/40, instead of 60/40)?

Cheers again.

 

[mazza]

O.k., thanks for that I'll take it onboard. Is the Cup Kit similar to B6's with H&R springs, would you say? One more question if you don't mind any experience/views on the Touring Cup Kit (40/40, instead of 60/40)?

Cheers again.

Hi JJ

The H&R cup kit has stiffer spring rates compared to H&R lowering springs (8-10%) stiffer VS OEM.

B6 and B8 are the same (apart from piston travel)

IMO 60/40 is too much of a drop with those spring rates, specially if your driving is of the spirited kind.

The w201/w124 anti roll bar system doesnt really tie up the wishbones, so you still get a bit of rolling and 60mm drop may give you a bit of rubbing under stressed conditions.

hope this helps
mazza

 

[John Jones Jr]

Mazza, I seem like pest. I've B6's with H&R's on my 201 (not an everyday car) they are absolutely great, but I want the new shocks & springs for my 202 230k - sort of daily come 'B' road fun car with a few trips London-Dublin & London-Germany. Does that change your opinion? Or will I just get the H&R Tourings and be done with it?

 

[mazza]

Mazza, I seem like pest. I've B6's with H&R's on my 201 (not an everyday car) they are absolutely great, but I want the new shocks & springs for my 202 230k - sort of daily come 'B' road fun car with a few trips London-Dublin & London-Germany. Does that change you opinion?

Hi JJ

Oh sorry mate..I assumed it was for the w201

I have never tried a w202 with H&R or B12

I still think that the H&R is a better piece of kit if you are looking for a "Fun" B road car

cant help much more

mazza

 

[John Jones Jr]

Thanks again Mazza really great to get another opinion.

Sorry to the OP for the unintentional thread high jack etc.

 

[WDB124066]

If the spring perch is close to the tower wouldn't make sense to brace the top of the tower - by the spring if not directly on top of the springs...?