W140 M119 siezed, help!

[ivan1983]

Will attempt to get a hoist so I can get into the sump this weekend.

When I drained the oil it was dirty but not full of metal , not sure what to make of that

 

[190]

Oil should be dirty if it's been in there a while. You could cut open the filter and spread out the pleats to see if it's caught any wear debris.

 

[brucemillar]

In an ideal world, the seller would tell you what the build up up to it stopping/seizing was. That would maybe save you big bucks, time & effort.

You really are dependant on some luck without the story. It could be the first screw or the last bolt.

No loose chunks suggests something has bent -rod, crank, valve etc. Then you are looking for why it bent- oil starvation, over revved?

It's a gamble. Maybe try the seller and explain where you are at and that you just want to get it fixed.

ZZZZPackedAsset-2.0.1-gamut0

 

[Stratman]

This is a real long shot, but does the crank pulley look newish?

It may have been replaced (or just removed/replaced) and the ring gear lock left in place. Have a look for something jammed in the periphery of the bellhousing.

 

[ivan1983]

This is a real long shot, but does the crank pulley look newish?

It may have been replaced (or just removed/replaced) and the ring gear lock left in place. Have a look for something jammed in the periphery of the bellhousing.

Crank pulley looks original

 

[ivan1983]

In an ideal world, the seller would tell you what the build up up to it stopping/seizing was. That would maybe save you big bucks, time & effort.

You really are dependant on some luck without the story. It could be the first screw or the last bolt.

No loose chunks suggests something has bent -rod, crank, valve etc. Then you are looking for why it bent- oil starvation, over revved?

It's a gamble. Maybe try the seller and explain where you are at and that you just want to get it fixed.

ZZZZPackedAsset-2.0.1-gamut0

Unfortunately the only story I have is that it was running and then it wouldn't start but would crank.

I havent managed to purchase a hoist yet but I take the sump off and the cams.

Looking at bottom I couldn't see anything bent but did notice that oil wasnt seeping from all of the cylinders ( I had filled the spark plug holes with oil)

Taking the cams off has revealed that there appears to be a couple of stuck exhaust valves

https://youtu.be/90fmeOu-CMU

With regards to the oil there appeared to be much more than the 8L that should be in there and it had a strong smell of petrol no lumps and no metal in the sump

 

[grober]

Could be the hydraulic valve lifters are broken or jammed.
how to check
https://youtu.be/L5kKAoL-jpU
the insides
https://youtu.be/ZCucAyf56Ik

Or you could have a couple of bent valves?

 

[ivan1983]

Could be the hydraulic valve lifters are broken or jammed.
how to check
https://youtu.be/L5kKAoL-jpU
the insides
https://youtu.be/ZCucAyf56Ik

Or you could have a couple of bent valves?

I pulled the lifters and the valves are definitely not seated in the head. Those are the worst pair there are another 2 pairs on the left bank that recessed a few mm. I believe I have 6 bent valves

Thoughts on the next course of action. I assume its still pull the engine but was wondering if there is mileage in pulling the head?

PS I like the video explaining how the lifters work

 

[grober]

Bent valves usually mean some form catastrophic valve timing failure allowing the pistons to come in contact with the valves---- usually from some form of valve timing chain failure or bad mistiming after a previous rebuild. If you remove the head+timing chain and the engine then frees up you are slightly further on and you can check for piston damage and bore scoring but be prepared for this to turn into an engine post mortem exam rather than curative surgery.

 

[ivan1983]

I have a feeling you may be right about it being a post mortem.
I think I will continue with the tear down but I think finding a replacement engine might be the answer.
Anyone know where the best place to get a M119.970 might be?

 

[brucemillar]

Try Dronsfields in Oldham. I have had a very good replacement engine from them - next day delivery on a pallet with warranty.

 

[ivan1983]

Not heard back from Dronsfields yet, but Carl from W140/R129.co.uk has one.

Need to speak to him about it in a bit more detail but has anybody used them for engines before?

 

[grober]

Once you found out the price of a replacement engine, this is point to have a hard look at the condition / value of the W140 you have bought to see whether the rest of the car is worth an engine replacement.

 

[ivan1983]

Once you found out the price of a replacement engine, this is point to have a hard look at the condition / value of the W140 you have bought to see whether the rest of the car is worth an engine replacement.

I like to think it is ( Bodywork in good nick and well optioned) , but as you said this is the point to take a good look at what im working with.

To get an overall cost in mind is it a bad idea to just drop in an engine or would I expect to have to do some work on it. I have not done an engine swap before so its a new area to me but its all just nuts and bolts right? Also bear in mind that that this is W140 with limited history and desirability so Im not going to tear it down and replace every seal and gasket

 

[brucemillar]

This will depend (to a large extent) on what you buy and from whom you buy it.

By engine some will mean an engine complete with ancillaries:
Power Steering Pump
Alternator
AC Compressor

Others will mean the bare engine with nothing but the block & the heads.

Lowest cost (not my favourite) is a block on it's own.

I bought Option 1, from Dronsfields and it arrived next day, on a pallet. It then took a good few hours to swap over the ancillaries. Just time and no real hassle, everything fitted OK.

But, you do need to weigh this against any costs that you have factored for labour/time etc.

A complete engine with all the bits should be pull out & drop in, connect up and start up.

There is no real science here so a warranty will offer some protection in the event you hit a problem. It is also good if you can get something writing that says it has been seen running fine.

Dronsfields were happy to give me both. They also were okay to negotiate on price (and did). I got a younger engine than I started with at a keen price and as described.

Just be sure that it is ONLY the engine that is seized and that the trans is not damaged?

 

[ivan1983]

Thought I would post a bit of an update.
Post mortem pictures of the scored cylinders are here
https://photos.app.goo.gl/717NfDzoTeMvbb012

The oil was from me trying to free up the cylinders ( That was never going to work!)

Any way I have slotted a new engine which appears to work.

However I have run into another issue, it appears that my theory of excess fuelling being the issue on the original engine might be right as the cat is blocked.

I had the front exhaust section out as I think it would have had a lot of oil in it from me trying to free up the cylinders.

Im trying to clean it by soaking in dishwasher soap ( I dont expect this to work), I have already poured out the oil and run some petrol through it.

It is very blocked I suspect the cat is melted internally

Any ideas on my options? I can get an aftermarket one for £200 but no idea how long this would last

Someone suggested the original could have a decent scrap value?