W163 vs W164 - Should I Change?

[E55BOF]

Good Evening All. I'm wondering whether to move on from a W163 to a W164.

I have an '02 ML320 petrol, on 52K miles, with the Luxury pack (basically just electric seats and full leather). I'm considering buying this:

2010 Mercedes-Benz ML350 3.0CDI BlueF Sport Designo Spec Full Hist - KMT Cars | eBay

Very good spec, looks good - lots of toys - but it's a diesel on 130K miles.

My main criterion when buying a car isn't the toys, though. Both cars are in decent condition (unless the pictures lie), and the ML350 has a full service history, so the mileage doesn't totally put me off. The 320 petrol drives perfectly, and is unlikely to need anything more than routine servicing and consumables for a few years at least; the 350 diesel might not be so fortunate. Does anybody think I would be unwise to change on that account?

I've not driven a W164, but I'm sure there are plenty on here who have driven both. Is the W164 a significant step up from the W163 in the driving experience, or should I just stick with what I already have?

 

[Mactech]

I think you must decide what is important to you. First I would drive a W164 and make your own mind up as to its worth compared to your own W163.
In my humble opinion, the 164 being a unitary construction vehicle is a big step up from the utilitarian beginnings of the 163, certainly in terms of refinement and modernity. I had one for almost 8 years and it behaved perfectly. That’s one of the main reasons I now have the GLE.

 

[Alex]

Having owned a ML320, ML55 and W164 ML420CDI, I'd recommend a V8 CDI. What a great engine it was! Immense fun with 900Nm of torque after a tuning box.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

£9000 worth of extras is a heck of a spec.

My first reaction to the question is why wouldn't you buy a 2010 ML350 diesel or petrol, on half the mileage, for just a tiny bit more money than the £8450 that this guy is asking for his beautiful blue car.

A grand extra gets you this beautiful black car, on 68k miles.

If the answer is "I want that Designo cream leather interior," I get it. If toys aren't important, mileage and servicing matters.

Others have always said that the earlier car is more "agricultural" than the later model, but I've no hands on experience, so I can't talk to that theme.

If you're paying paying at £7k for the upgrade, you'll nearly halve your fuel bills. Is this another consideration? What's that worth over three years?


M

 

[clk208]

A few forum members have had to fork out for pretty big repair bills on these v6 CDIs with dpf would be my only concern. A delivery driver was telling me a similar story the other day with a sprinter. Your M112 will only ever need MAFs

 

[Will]

Plus maybe the odd crank sensor, water pump, cam cover seals and coil pack

M112/113 are both solid engines though!

 

[Deletedmember130310]

The car listed has an average MoT history at best.....

 

[E55BOF]

Thank you, gentlemen. Perhaps I should explain that I fish in a small pool when I'm looking for an ML; I don't want black, and I don't want Fifty Shades of Grey (which includes all the silvers). That rules out 90% of those for sale...

You may have noticed I like Tanzanite with a light interior. Like my W163, and that W164.

The diesel will be considerably more economical, but fuel costs are not important.

There's nothing in the MoT history that rings particular alarm bells with me; most of it is just routine consumables.

That's by the bye, though; I'd like to know, from someone who has actually owned both, whether the W164 is significantly nicer to drive than its predecessor.

 

[Mactech]

W164? Pansyfright blue? Light interior? Nah! Can't see the attraction!





Just go the whole hog and make sure it's on Airmatic Whilst I never owned a 163, I have driven one....and the answer is YES!

 

[E55BOF]

So where's that for sale, and which engine does it have?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

"My main criterion when buying a car isn't the toys, though" And gradually we reveal the "User Requirements."

Which is not to diss them - because I'm with you all the way. It just changes the nature of the question.

I can't talk to the driving experience, because I haven't. I'd be amazed if people don't say that it's a far better car to drive...

It's still worth putting a number on the annual running cost saving, it could help the process of justifying the process of counting £7000 in fifties for the upgrade.

 

[Mactech]

So where's that for sale, and which engine does it have?

Unfortunately, I sold it 4 years ago to a guy down in Surrey

 

[MercedesDriver]

I like it and if I were you I would go and see/test it. I also don’t think that MOT history rings many bells but I would investigate that oil leak which was reported two years in a row. Seller mentions print out of service history which I find positive sign of services done by MB or one of authorised independents. With approximate annual mileage of 20k it was most likely on M roads most of it’s life. Good luck.

 

[E55BOF]

"My main criterion when buying a car isn't the toys, though" And gradually we reveal the "User Requirements."

Which is not to diss them - because I'm with you all the way. It just changes the nature of the question.

I can't talk to the driving experience, because I haven't. I'd be amazed if people don't say that it's a far better car to drive...

It's still worth putting a number on the annual running cost saving, it could help the process of justifying the process of counting £7000 in fifties for the upgrade.

Replacements ought to be an improvement on their predecessors, I agree, but they aren't always: I wouldn't say the W212 is a far better car to drive than the W211, but then I really liked the 211. I really like the 163, too... Hence my second question, which Mactech has answered "Yes".

I don't feel a need to justify buying it (if I do); if I want it, I can afford it. I don't want a potential money pit, though, hence my first question: "Does anybody think I would be unwise to change on that account?"

The car is up near Glasgow, and I'm down near London, so a test drive will only realistically happen if I fly up with the intention of buying it. I always have in the past in such circumstances...

I suppose I'll have to find one for sale near me, and pose as a potential buyer. Best find a dodgy dealer, then; I'd feel guilty deceiving an honest man or a private seller.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I really like the one you’ve posted Dennis, perfect paint/interior combo.

I’ve owned three (1 x 420 & 2 x 350 CDI’s)

The 7G box is the weakest part in the W164 imo, the pause from setting off really is something to be experienced!

I’d say a must have option is the Airmatic, it totally transform the ride from being wallowy to a planted motor.

Try a 420 if possible, covers every angle possible - lung-busting torque with 30+mpg.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The W164 is a leap - not a step - up from the W163, and blue with light leather interior is seriously rare do very desirable. I got all excited when I first saw it and wondered whether I could beat you to it. I’ve managed to distract myself so you’re safe. For now.

 

[E55BOF]

I really like the one you’ve posted Dennis, perfect paint/interior combo.

I’ve owned three (1 x 420 & 2 x 350 CDI’s)

The 7G box is the weakest part in the W164 imo, the pause from setting off really is something to be experienced!

I’d say a must have option is the Airmatic, it totally transform the ride from being wallowy to a planted motor.

Try a 420 if possible, covers every angle possible - lung-busting torque with 30+mpg.

It's slightly bling-y for my taste, particularly the grille, but less obtrusive aftermarket grilles are available. I think the extra chrome strip on the tailgate might have to go, too, if it was mine.

I've had a few cars with 7g boxes, including the SLK, and I can't say I've noticed much lag on setting off. Anyway, I don't need something racy as a dog van, or I'd keep the E63, and the SLK does very well when the hooligan in me needs to come out and play...

The ad doesn't say whether it has Airmatic, but if it has, Airmatic with 130K miles up? Is it more reliable than on, say, the W211?

If you want it, Bobby, go for it; I like it, but there's nothing actually wrong with the ML320 I have already, and it would be more sensible to keep on with that. Then again, where's the fun in being sensible...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It's slightly bling-y for my taste, particularly the grille, but less obtrusive aftermarket grilles are available. I think the extra chrome strip on the tailgate might have to go, too, if it was mine.

I've had a few cars with 7g boxes, including the SLK, and I can't say I've noticed much lag on setting off. Anyway, I don't need something racy as a dog van, or I'd keep the E63, and the SLK does very well when the hooligan in me needs to come out and play...

The ad doesn't say whether it has Airmatic, but if it has, Airmatic with 130K miles up? Is it more reliable than on, say, the W211?

If you want it, Bobby, go for it; I like it, but there's nothing actually wrong with the ML320 I have already, and it would be more sensible to keep on with that. Then again, where's the fun in being sensible...

I got momentarily excited by the colour combination. I’ve calmed myself down now. I’m easily excited.

It’s well into the danger zone for replacement Airmatic struts or compressor, but the risk would be there on a car with say 80,000 miles. Personally I wouldn’t that be the deciding factor.

 

[219]

I can’t comment on the driving experience between the two models , but I would say that with a Diesel engine on that mileage service history, or at least some warranty , is everything.

I bought my C270CDI with a slightly lower mileage and in apparently good condition, then over the next 18 months had to replace all the injectors at around £400 each , the thermostat, a very expensive high pressure fuel pipe , and an air pipe . Non Diesel related faults included a suspension link , a door lock and a rear wiper assembly ( which I sold the car with still faulty , siezed up due to washer fluid leakage into the motor ) . After I sold the car the turbo failed for the next owner , and it needed a rear exhaust section, which he knew when he bought it . Oh , and the car had the stuck swirl flap problem also unfixed when I got shot .

I accept that I was perhaps unlucky , but all of these things are common faults which many owners will see one or two of .

If service history shows these have already been done you should have a good car that will go on for another 100K without needing much attention; otherwise some of these problems could be just around the corner.

While the fuel economy , the reason I gave diesel a try , was impressive , the repair costs more than wiped out the savings .

MLs are big heavy cars , so worn suspension components might also be a possibility, petrol or diesel .

 

[219]

"My main criterion when buying a car isn't the toys, though" And gradually we reveal the "User Requirements."

Which is not to diss them - because I'm with you all the way. It just changes the nature of the question.

I can't talk to the driving experience, because I haven't. I'd be amazed if people don't say that it's a far better car to drive...

It's still worth putting a number on the annual running cost saving, it could help the process of justifying the process of counting £7000 in fifties for the upgrade.

If the OP’s 02 reg car is only on 52K , it’s safe to say it doesn’t do a high annual mileage, so fuel costs won’t be that big a number .