W210 Rust observations

[big x]

Any chance of a pic of the rear subframe ? A long term rust point on many Mercedes models.

adam

 

[Dieselman]

Is the W210 E55 AMG equally affected by this rust issue?

Just in case you're hard of hearing.

yes

 

[Benzowner]

It mus be said though, I have looked at a number of W210's and not all of them were as bad as the pictures shown on here. As Janner said, the main problem would appear to be poor paint and underseal quality. My W210 had the usuall rusty bits, but after spending around £500 all the rust was gone and the car looked as good as new. Don't be put off by all you read and hear, there are some good examples of W210's around.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Janner. Buy yourself a tin of POR15 from Frosts restoration. Get some goggles, and a wire brush for a drill, and you'll have that rust sorted in less than a day.

 

[janner]

Any chance of a pic of the rear subframe ? A long term rust point on many Mercedes models.
adam

Rear subframe just has some surface rust, nothing too bad. The chassis is just as bad as the front though The underseal looks thinner than a thin thing.
Note that the area to the right of the pic (light grey) has spent its life behind a plastic cover so no stone chips and limited exposure to road salt.

 

[Dieselman]

The underseal looks thinner than a thin thing.
Note that the area to the right of the pic (light grey) has spent its life behind a plastic cover so no stone chips and limited exposure to road salt.

That's because there isn't any applied..kidding?..nein..
MB chose to use...get this...Organic galvanising????? or primer only.

For some reason the plastic cover seems to exaccerbate the corrosion, it must be that it creates turbulance for the salty water to be sucked in but no cleaning water reaches the metal.

 

[Robbo]

A shocking example of the costcutting that went on in the late 90s early 2000s period. They must have known that the rust protection was inadequate.

 

[mobeyone]

Ah, good old W210 quality. Truly terrible. Although I wont be surprised if early W203 cars are like this in a few years time too. My W203 is just starting to go in a few places underneath.

My old 203 had rust on the pillars, front bonnet and wings.... and this was when the car was just over 4 years old

Started of as blisters and eventually the orange started to come through just before it went.

 

[gazz]

Thought I would add my two pence worth. I am convinced the problem is with the steel rather than the coating to protect it. Having repaired a few, I believe the problems start beneath the coating and work their way out. Ford had a similar problem between 1986 and 1988 with very poor quality steel that was used primarily on the Ford Escort.

Front spring supports on W210 rust underneath the seam sealant, even though there is no sign of cracking or porousity (sp?) of the sealant itself.

British Leyland used to have a paintshop that was down the road from the fabrication shop. Bare shells used to go on a transporter rain or shine. No wonder we used to weld them for their first MOT.....

 

[230K]

Hi

While your checking for rust remove the wheelarch liners, only then will you get the true picture. They are not hard to remove.

230K

 

[janner]

Already did
This is what the rear arch looks like now.

 

[Dieselman]

Thought I would add my two pence worth. I am convinced the problem is with the steel rather than the coating to protect it. Having repaired a few, I believe the problems start beneath the coating and work their way out. Ford had a similar problem between 1986 and 1988 with very poor quality steel that was used primarily on the Ford Escort.

Front spring supports on W210 rust underneath the seam sealant, even though there is no sign of cracking or porousity (sp?) of the sealant itself.

British Leyland used to have a paintshop that was down the road from the fabrication shop. Bare shells used to go on a transporter rain or shine. No wonder we used to weld them for their first MOT.....

I'd beg to differ. All W210 rust starts where the paint coat is breached due to not being thick enough at sharp edges or even missing completely such as door tops.
The front spring hangers don't have much /any seam sealer on, and what they do have doesn't cover the whole seam.

A protective coating does indeed stop the corrosion and if done properly even a rusty panel can be saved. If it was the steel they would rust without water as it would be electrolytic corrosion.

 

[big x]

I'd beg to differ. All W210 rust starts where the paint coat is breached due to not being thick enough at sharp edges or even missing completely such as door tops.
The front spring hangers don't have much /any seam sealer on, and what they do have doesn't cover the whole seam.

A protective coating does indeed stop the corrosion and if done properly even a rusty panel can be saved. If it was the steel they would rust without water as it would be electrolytic corrosion.

If it was the steel alone my 1997 C-Class would be rusting too underneath but it's not.Some of the components like the subframe are rusty but not the body. BTW MB have their own steel plants however during the late 90's MB where struggling to meet high demand and I do wonder if an outside source was used for the W210 line. Perhaps a cheaper grade of steel,thin paint, and little or no sealer.
Looking at the state of that rear bracket I have a feeling this cars been in contact with sea, perhaps driven down Pendine sands. Years ago I worked on a pop promo and one of the shots was a 911 driving through sea spray on the beach.The car was a Porsche demo car I'm sure it was wrecked.

adam

 

[big x]

This is my C-class same year and mileage.There was quite a bit of rust in the rear subframe and fuel pump support brackets. About 18 months ago I treated it with Kurust and Waxoyl.There are better ways but it seems to have worked for the time being.Otherwise apart from the bootlid shambles the car is largely rust free.The actual underbody protection seems comparable to my BMW although the BMW paint is superior.The BMW also has aluminium subframes,brake callipers,shock absorber bodies,hubcarriers and control arms which don't corrode.This is the Touring rear axle complete apart from the self-levelling air spring that fits on the flat pad.

adam

 

[Robbo]

TBH, I think that looks pretty good for a 10 year old car. Not too much to worry about!

 

[big x]

TBH, I think that looks pretty good for a 10 year old car. Not too much to worry about!

One area MB score over BMW is in the quality and installation of brake and fuel lines.The previous owner of my 1999 BMW Touring had replaced the rear brake pipes due to corrosion.That's a poor showing for a 6 year old car !
Looking at the invoice the rear subframe needed dropping even using bendy copper piping.
Many years ago I had a 1984 BMW 323i and the rear brake pipes where shot at 7 years.Seems a total blind spot for BMW.
I had a look at a Volvo V70 and the pipework is hidden behind panels or coated with black mastic/wax.

adam

 

[Birdman]

Is the W210 E55 AMG equally affected by this rust issue?

The W210 rust issue isn't related to the model but to flaws in the manufacturing process. And it doesn't stop with that model - it affects the W220 S Class too.

My 2001 E55 is regularly inspected and has no visible problems. Neither did my 1997 W210 when sold at 5 years old. Between them they accumulated 186,000 rust-free miles. So it may be a matter of luck, plus exposure to the elements (and road salt).

 

[Hawthorn37]

Like most posting replies to this thread, my 2002 Avantgarde W210 has been back to the paint shop a couple of times under warranty (boot lid, boot lock, doors, wheel arches), and I'll be taking it down again this week (bonnet - breaking out around the top grille). Other areas MB have refused to cover were the alloys (had them done for £300, now breaking through again), and the door pillar black inserts (MB quoted £60 each for these).

The biggest hassle I have found is getting a courtesy car for the weeks mine is in the paint shop. The local Derby franchised paint shop claims they took MB warranty work as a loss-leader for collision work, and they're losing a packet on it - and so are unwilling to even give people a Polo to drive round in! (After some pleading they did do this last time, I'm not holding out hope this time though).

Also had a C220CDi estate, minor rust. Are the W211 models any better?

 

[glojo]

Are the W211 models any better?

Older ones are four years old now and touching wood as I type... The only problems I have read about is a very few vehicles having issues with the black trim.

The official Mercedes response to this corrosion is the design of the steel press (or operation). The metal has been over stretched at the problem areas. I have no opinion on the truth of this statement but I will suggest that if it is paint, then once the vehicle has had repairs then it would not return for a second visit?

Good luck
John

 

[Birdman]

Use of the metal cutting dies past their intended life caused the sheet metal to stretch, rather than producing a clean edge, and that is one problem I've read about. They also had problems in the paintshop. But that's all history now and M-B do a fine job of rust-proofing their vehicles

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34227&highlight=galvanise