W211 E220 CDi 2004 "Heavy Steering & Judder/Vibration” When Accelerating/Gear Change

[pmcgsmurf]

Hi folks

Any advice appreciated on my old car, bought this in 2004 and sold it in 2010 with 34,000 on it.

Just about to take it back with 208,000 on it even though I've got a very nice W212 with only 13,000 on it, am I mad?

The car has been well serviced at an indy specialist during the time I've not had it and has had a lot replaced plus new discs etc.

When I ordered the W210 from new I added quite a few extras to it and also added COMAND NTG2.5 to in in 2010.
It still looks in very nice condition apart from the headlamps that need replaced or re-worked.

The things that concern me are:

1. Judder/Vibration around 1800 RPM when accelerating/changing gear.
Think it has the 722.6 auto box in it and I'm worried there may be a major problem with the box due to the mileage.

2. Steering seems very heavy.
I can't remember it being that heavy and is a lot heavier than the W212.

Any pointers on any of these problems?

I'm going to get a OBD reader to check for any fault codes.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Of course it's a W211 not a 210,

 

[bob6600]

The judder could be the glycol problem on early 211s although should have reared it's ugly head by now. Could be the torque converter? Guesswork without more information or inspection.

Heavy steering could easily be under inflated tyres

 

[bob6600]

Edit: double post

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I remember checking the radiator back when I first owned the car and it wasn't the affected type.

Checked tyres etc. and don't see any problem, it's as if the power steering is not being fully applied.

Will have it connected to an OBD reader on Monday to see if it has any fault codes present.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Interesting, garage believe that coolant has got into the gearbox and has damaged the Torque Convertor. New TC, radiator & flush etc.

Not a cheap repair.

I'm sure I checked the car way back and the radiator wasn't effected batch.

Will have to look again.

Is there a simple test to check for coolant having leaked into the gearbox?

 

[Tim203]

I thought this was the case on my w203 ( 220cdi Estate). The vibration builds up in 3rd or 4th on high torque loads at the rpm you suggested ( probably near peak torque). If you don't back off the heat shields underneath start vibrating and it's like a dog shaking itself from nose to tail . I got a sampling kit from oil lab to confirm the presence or not of sodium ( antifreeze ) which was negative. I think it's better after a oil and filter change but still rears it's ugly head when warmer. Going to look at engine mounts next as I was advised they're normally only good for around 100k. Did the centre prop mount bearing thinking the prop was skipping roping but of course that wasn't it either! The most annoying thing is not knowing the root cause without replacing half the car!

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I've got the car back from the dealer who has diagnosed "coolant getting into the ATF", new radiator, flush, torque convertor etc.

Thing is I've checked the radiator and it has the little protrusion so "should" be a Behr.

I'm guessing the dealer has just assumed this to be the fault as they seem to have went way downhill and none of the guys we have dealt with over the years are there anymore.

Once I get some time I'll get the bottom cover off and check it out for sure.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Just had details on the dealer repair cost.

£1,300 parts (Torque Convertor, Radiator, oil flush & filter) + £1,000 labour.

I still find it hard to believe that it's took so long for the radiator problem to occur and I "was" certain it wasn't a Valeo one that was fitted.

Will get the covers off over the next few days and have a look see.

 

[Auto-mobile]

I'm still getting 52/03/53/04 c/e/s classes with this problem, milage range between 52k and 200k if I was you I'd get a Indy to change the radiator amd flush the system with new filter and fluids, this is what I do and have only had the 200k e320 come back this is probably due to the customer doing 50k miles with the problem.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I'm still getting 52/03/53/04 c/e/s classes with this problem, milage range between 52k and 200k if I was you I'd get a Indy to change the radiator amd flush the system with new filter and fluids, this is what I do and have only had the 200k e320 come back this is probably due to the customer doing 50k miles with the problem.

Are you seeing the same problem with the Behr radiator or only the Valeo?
As I said I'm sure we had Behr but will get it on the ramp and have a look.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Hi folks

So can anyone help me identify this radiator, Valeo or Behr?








I had used the guide that it didn't have the folded over crimp parts to conclude it was a Behr.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Anyone know please?

A bit worried if it's a Behr and the dealer has diagnosed water in the ATF that the problem is not limited to the Valeo radiator.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

So as per the Valeo thread (pic. below) looks like I definitely have a Behr radiator so shouldn't have any coolant contamination issue.

Have the car stripped down and can't see any obvious causes of the vibration under acceleration, rear mount on the gearbox has already been changed.

Looks like the front driveshaft donut has also been changed, the rear one is a little worn but nothing too major.

There is an oil leak from the gearbox sump as well as the electrical connector to this though.

I'm wondering if it's worth only trying the filter/oil/connector job or at the same time after the 208k miles if I should just do the TC at the same time.

Anyone any pointers better experience?

 

[jaymanek]

How have they found out its glycol issue? Did they drain the fluid and carry out the test? If so then I would go to either an indie or a transmission specialist. Replace radiator, total flush, trans filter, fluid and have torque converter rebuilt. When we did this job it used to come in at around 1500.. We haven't done one for years now...

 

[pmcgsmurf]

How have they found out its glycol issue? Did they drain the fluid and carry out the test? If so then I would go to either an indie or a transmission specialist. Replace radiator, total flush, trans filter, fluid and have torque converter rebuilt. When we did this job it used to come in at around 1500.. We haven't done one for years now...

I'm confused again but that's easy at my age.

My radiator is a Behr, are these known to have the same glycol issue?

Sending some transmission oil away tomorrow anyway for analysis but wont get this back for about a week at least.

Was just trying to get head around whether the oil change would be enough or just pay the extra cost and do the TC at the same time.

 

[jaymanek]

The fact is you have a vibration..if it turns out to be glycol then must do the converter at same time.

Sending it away? Nuts... They only need to test if it has coolant in it.. Normally it's visibly milky.. Otherwise just heat a sample up in a pan.. If it pops and fizzes, it's got coolant in it!

At 208k any radiator could have failed.. Doesn't have to be valeo..

 

[pmcgsmurf]

The fact is you have a vibration..if it turns out to be glycol then must do the converter at same time.

Thanks, see what you mean hadn't thought about it that way.

Sending it away? Nuts... They only need to test if it has coolant in it.. Normally it's visibly milky.. Otherwise just heat a sample up in a pan.. If it pops and fizzes, it's got coolant in it!

They now being me and the lads at work when we are between jobs.
Funny enough I thought about the heat pan thing to look for water in it as we used to use a similar method to check one of our old machines.

Will drain some off tomorrow for a look and depending on the results will determine if some gets sent to one of the local garages that offered to use their kit to test.

At 208k any radiator could have failed.. Doesn't have to be valeo..

Good point.

 

[Ultrarep]

My e320cdi 2004 used to do this when I bought it. Does the rev counter waver at the problem point?

If it does then its the lock up solenoid on the electromplate i. The base of the gbox. I read up about this issue somewhere as I was thinking tconvertor or stuffed gbox. So decided to change the solenoid electroplate and connector. Cost me 200 english pounds got the parts plus oil and took 3 hours and its npbeen silky smooth ever since. It may not be your problem but the wavering revcounter was the giveaway as it was locking then releasing rapidly causing the vibe

 

[pmcgsmurf]

My e320cdi 2004 used to do this when I bought it. Does the rev counter waver at the problem point?

If it does then its the lock up solenoid on the electromplate i. The base of the gbox. I read up about this issue somewhere as I was thinking tconvertor or stuffed gbox. So decided to change the solenoid electroplate and connector. Cost me 200 english pounds got the parts plus oil and took 3 hours and its npbeen silky smooth ever since. It may not be your problem but the wavering revcounter was the giveaway as it was locking then releasing rapidly causing the vibe

Yes the revs do waver a bit although I haven't driven the car very far/long with the problem.

Good news is it doesn't look like the ATF is contaminated with water.
Drained a small amount off today, did a hot plate test and got no spitting or crackling sounds whatsoever from it.
It does go on fire very quick if you have the plate too hot.

The fluid is a dark reddish brown colour, looks a lot lighter below as it's poured on a white piece of paper.