What brake pad?

[Terry_]

There'a 2 types of red stuff the old and the new, the old were shocking and took ages to warm up to their full potential. The new are brilliant as Simon says (pardon the pun )

Far better than OEM which do dust like hell. I've currently got red stuff in the Volvo and Ferodo ds2000 in the CLK which are brilliant performers but you have to work them to get the full potential, Pagid pro are also good,

But having had both cars around the ring on several occasions the one thing I do know is they all perform better than the OEM equivalents

Well there you have it

You know better! And so does s.speed!
Better than genuine

 

[sspeed]

Well there you have it

You know better! And so does s.speed!
Better than genuine

I am sorry if I have offended because genuinely I didn't mean it..
Let me modify (pardon the pun) my statement...
Obviously genuine pads are of a high standard and they work very well indeed.

But for me one very annoying aspect is the dust they make..
On my car it means cleaning wheels every 2 days or so..
When I first tried the EBC green stuff pads some years ago (VW Golf) I was pleasantly surprised at the low dust.. The dust they did make was easier to clean off...The green stuff offered slightly more bite and didn't fade till a higher temp..
On a later VW Golf I tried the newly formulated Red stuff pads..
Even better bite and the temp range was higher still..

However.. One thing I will agree with you about is that the physical metal backing had to be slightly eased with a file as I do remember the fit into the carrier was slightly too tight..
Soo Yes you are correct that the finish could be better.. Once fitted though the braking ability was amazing...

My previous C270 cdi I fitted a full set of the Textar E pads..
These are a low dust formulation.. I wouldn't say they offered more bite than standard but they certainly made less dust..
I have to be honest and say that the quality of the metal backing was superb.. They fitted perfectly and the sensor fitted perfectly and connected without issue.
So to sum up...
MB are excellent but dusty..
Red stuff bite better and don't fade till a higher than standard temp, BUT the fitting is not 100%.. Could be better
Textar E Pads are about the same quality of manufacture and similar bite as MB but dust a lot less.

WG M-B I am sorry if I offended you..
It really want meant.

 

[flango]

Well there you have it

You know better! And so does s.speed!
Better than genuine

As a fully qualified mechanic and race driver instructor yes I do know better only been in this game 34 years. and driven as a test driver for major manufacturers in motor sport development.

You don't like my opinion couldn't give a t*ss you must be confusing me for someone who cares

rearrange these words to make a well known phrase Grandma suck eggs teach to can't

You'll also notice I'm not as polite as sspeed and also I don't think it is appropriate for a forum sponsor to be antagonistic to the members, great way to get business.

 

[flango]

Anyone one run Brembo brake pads?

I've run a total Brembo set up Discs, Calipers and Pads, awesome Never run Brembo pads in standard calipers on standard discs though.

My current brake set up all round is AP racing calipers, AP racing drilled and grooved discs, Ferodo DS2000 pads and goodrige stainless steel flexis

Stops much faster and in a much shorter distance than OEM.

But apparently OEM is better

 

[whitenemesis]

A genuine question, I am not trying to stir things but gain a better understanding.

If the OEM setup can lock the wheels and engage the ABS how does the AP setup stop the car more quickly (assuming the same wheel/tyres on both) ?

 

[flango]

A genuine question, I am not trying to stir things but gain a better understanding.

If the OEM setup can lock the wheels and engage the ABS how does the AP setup stop the car more quickly (assuming the same wheel/tyres on both) ?

I think THIS article explains it all but the equation is really simple

If you upgrade the performance of your car you need to upgrade the brakes

Make it quicker = Stop it faster.

The AP set up gives massive intital bite where most of the braking is done, stainless flexis give it a firm pedal with no give the drilled and grooved discs keep the pad surface clean and dissapate heat. When the car is used in anger there is no break fade at all so breaking can be left until the very last minute with no worries you will fly off the circuit due to brake fade or boiling brake fluid

 

[whitenemesis]

Ah, so the absolute stopping ability is still the tyre/road surface friction but the rate of retardation is disc/pad friction. Greater rate of retardation brings the "skid" sooner.
Bigger discs bigger friction area greater heat dissipation for better consistent stopping.

But would these interactions be less significant in daily driving "down the shops"? On the track defo better than OEM. On the daily commute?

 

[flango]

Ah, so the absolute stopping ability is still the tyre/road surface friction but the rate of retardation is disc/pad friction. Greater rate of retardation brings the "skid" sooner.
Bigger discs bigger friction area greater heat dissipation for better consistent stopping.

But would these interactions be less significant in daily driving "down the shops"? On the track defo better than OEM. On the daily commute?

Absolutely on the daily commute down the shops there would hardly be any noticeable difference and if I had not uprated cars I would not have changed the brakes, but all my cars get driven in anger either on track or on the autobahn hence my reason for change.

Swmbo's Volvo runs OEM pads and discs as does my daughters Fiat Punto, no point spending money for the sake of it on cars that rarely see speed.

The only time I would consider changing OEM pads on a daily commuting car is if the OEM pads were too dusty (which MB ones are)

 

[whitenemesis]

Thanks Ian, all makes perfect sense

 

[sspeed]

Gulp...
I seem to have an inbuilt ability to start wars..
..
If brake upgrades didnt work then C63 AMG's would have the same set up as a C220 Cdi..

 

[John Jones Jr]

Simon, I presume the EBC's (Red Stuff) accept brake wear indicators?

 

[whitenemesis]

Gulp...
I seem to have an inbuilt ability to start wars..
..
If brake upgrades didnt work then C63 AMG's would have the same set up as a C220 Cdi..

Of course not!! The C63 is much heavier up front, so could take greater stopping power as the front wheel grip would be greater



Is this the 15min or full 1/2hr argument?

 

[sspeed]

Simon, I presume the EBC's (Red Stuff) accept brake wear indicators?

The Red stuff I used were on the VW Golf GT Tdi but yes they accepted wear sensors..

 

[sspeed]

Of course not!! The C63 is much heavier up front, so could take greater stopping power as the front wheel grip would be greater



Is this the 15min or full 1/2hr argument?

So why does a golf gti have bigger brakes when it was slightly less heavy than the Golf tdi I had..
I uograded the brakes to the GT Turbo ones..

 

[RBYCC]

So why does a golf gti have bigger brakes when it was slightly less heavy than the Golf tdi I had..
I uograded the brakes to the GT Turbo ones..

Vehicle weight and weight distribution is less of a factor then the rate of acceleration of the vehicle. The faster/more power a vehicle is/has is directly proportional to the selection of the braking system.

The majority of drivers in normal street driving can't reach the limits of even a standard braking system. If they find themselves near the limit then they are driving unsafely except in an emergency braking condition.

Tracking a car is where the difference in rotor size, caliper construction, pad material selection makes the difference.

Difficult to get the rotors glowing red on the street, but common with a high power car on a road course.

My opinion is street selection of pads would lean toward a low dust composite material. Always a compromise between wear for street application.

On one of my cars I run Textar pads with Zimmerman drilled rotors with great success. Both OEM quality.

 

[whitenemesis]

So why does a golf gti have bigger brakes when it was slightly less heavy than the Golf tdi I had..
I uograded the brakes to the GT Turbo ones..

Sense of humour by-pass Simon??

 

[flango]

Sense of humour by-pass Simon??

Actually I think it me that might have had the sense of humour by-pass In re-reading post #23 I think I was a little OTT. I must have had a bad day, wrong time of the month or withdrawal symptoms from alcohol call it what you will anyway sorry