whats this world coming to?

[Pietre]

I think you will never stop the criminal element from being armed in one way or another, so the only deterent is the punishment for the crime when they are caught. If we stop all of the doo gooders from thinking about the injustices (alleged) being done to the criminal, and consider the victims instead. we need a justice system that dispenses justice not a hand slap and send the culprit of for a holiday, with the victim scared to leave thier home. Our courts have become a joke with the police presenting evidence and out of touch judiciary letting them off. Let the time punish the crime, and lets make it a punishment and not a holiday camp. My sympathies go to the families of this horrendous crime, and my respect to all of those who go out each day to protect my rights and uphold our laws.

 

[Benzowner]

Pietre, I agree with your sentiments, there appears to be no deterent against crime in this country. Aside from the reintroduction of the death penalty which I strongly agree with, if a person is found guilty of murder, the sentence should be for the rest of his or her life improsonment, not the 14 or so years they now get. Ans as for the do gooders trying to convince us that some murderers have reformed and should be released, what planet do they exist on. They do not appear to live in our world

 

[glojo]

. we need a justice system that dispenses justice not a hand slap and send the culprit of for a holiday, with the victim scared to leave thier home. Our courts have become a joke with the police presenting evidence and out of touch judiciary letting them off. Let the time punish the crime, and lets make it a punishment and not a holiday camp.

Hi Pietre,
You are echoing sentiments I expressed, many, many months ago on this forum. I explained how I wrote to this Government's minister who is responsible for prisons stating exactly what you ae now saying. I was informed that prisons are NOT a place of punishment, they are a place for reform............................

The minister explained this was the government policy and would not change, I totally disagree with this, and I find it an absolute SICK joke that government ministers believe they can actually 'reform' hardened criminals.

Of course there should be prisons that should attempt to reform folks that have fallen on hard times, but for those that do not want to be reformed we are merely sending them away for a relaxing holiday, offering them facilities that some honest, hard working citizens will never be able to afford.

I am not going to go into one of my long winded rants simply out of respect for the main topic of this thread.

Regards,
John

 

[Benzowner]

I was informed that prisons are NOT a place of punishment, they are a place for reform............................


Maximum security reform centres ????????? Something wrong somewhere. Break the kaw and you are not punished, you are reformed??

 

[glojo]

Maximum security reform centres ????????? Something wrong somewhere. Break the kaw and you are not punished, you are reformed??

I can put my hand on my heart and say that I did NOT vote these idiots into power, but we live in a democratic soceity and must respect the judgement of those reformers that have been elected.

These bloomin' 'Northerners' have a lot to answer for

Regards,
John

 

[Flash]

Police have to be armed or have rapid reponse units on standyby to attend armed robberies instead of unarmed officers All criminals out there (most of them...) carry guns and wot chance do the Police stand sending unarmed officers (like in the Bradford scenario...) to an armed robbery in progress....??? A frined of mine just lives a street away from the tragic incident in Bradford and she is deeply shaken by it...

 

[glojo]

wot chance do the Police stand sending unarmed officers (like in the Bradford scenario...) to an armed robbery in progress....??? .

Hi Flash,
It is truly a terrible thing that has happened and hopefully this government will NOT get influenced by public pressure. The employers of Police Officers have a responsibility of care under the crazy sounding Health and Safety regulations, and must take all reasonable steps to protect their staff, but we should listen to the Police Federation. At present I believe a huge majority of serving Police Officers do NOT want to see a totally armed Police Service?

John

 

[Pietre]

We need to have a government that stops sending out the wrong signals. We now have a reform system for hardened criminals who would consider themselves proffesional crooks. So lets treat them that way. They know the risks for the things that they do, so treat them accordingly, and let it be known if you use a club you get x years, a knife y years, a gun z year, and life means life. The courts are meant to be able to sort out those who need reform and those who need punishment. How do you reform someone like Sutcliffe, or Hyndley, you cant, so therefore they should be punished. I thought that was why we had maximum security prisons on Isle of Wight etc. If it was the son of Mr Blair gunned down i feel the reform status would soon be removed.
We should never forget that whilst we may moan at the Police for the way they catch us for speeding etc, they are the first people we call upon when we have a problem that needs their attention

 

[Ian B Walker]

These bloomin' 'Northerners' have a lot to answer for

Regards,
John

I am not going to bite

I am not going to bite

I am not going to bite

Sod it............Just what do you mean by that?

 

[Satch]

Why are we Brits encouraged by so many people to cling on to the rather odd idea that having an unarmed Police force is good but armed Police are bad when just about everyone else in the world thinks that is utter nonsense?

It must hamper operational flexibilty having to rely on specialist units all the time and end up putting individual officers without that backup in mortal peril when faced with armed criminals who are, without doubt, increasingly able to access and use firearms.

There are more armed officers around than the general public are told, but the view expressed in some places is that Blair and crew dread arming the Police as a whole for cynical reasons.

That would be seen as the final admission of both their complete and utter failure as a Government to control violent crime and the sheer nonsense of trumpeting ever more strict gun controls that impose huge restrictions on legitimate shooting sports but to absolutely no worthwhile effect.

(In case anybody in Government reading this has not yet noticed, criminals tend not obey laws)

 

[Benzowner]

Why are we Brits encouraged by so many people to cling on to the rather odd idea that having an unarmed Police force is good but armed Police are bad when just about everyone else in the world thinks that is utter nonsense?

I think most of us are worried about a shoot first ask questions later attitude that could result from arming the police. Some people do not have the mental attitude to handle or control firearms, Muchael Ryan for example, and this type of person could already be in the police force. I sincerely hope they are not though.

 

[Satch]

I think most of us are worried about a shoot first ask questions later attitude that could result from arming the police. Some people do not have the mental attitude to handle or control firearms.

Been said before but a gun is just a tool. The user is the key so yes, do need to be quite clear that the people you arm are properly equipped in terms of training and mindset.

Trouble in this country is that we have now got this general "eek, a gun, how terrible" attitude born out of fear and media hype. So when guns become forbidden objects, really dangerous & stupid people then seek firearms as either a form of status or fetish object/winner of "respect" let alone doing so for the purposes of robbery/murder.

So you already have guns in the hands of people with no training, no control and not exactly a good mental attitude.

 

[glojo]

Why are we Brits encouraged by so many people to cling on to the rather odd idea that having an unarmed Police force is good but armed Police are bad when just about everyone else in the world thinks that is utter nonsense?

I think it is more to do with what the Police actually want.

I am sure there are times when they would want more armed officers, but... There has always been a huge majority vote within Police Forces to not 100% arm everyone. I belive the last referendum had an 80% against vote. Michael Winner has got too involved although he has been brilliant in what he has done.

Sod it............Just what do you mean by that?

Hi Ian,
North of Bristol is 'Up North' (joke) and North of Bristol is where the majority of Labour voters live, so Northerners are responsible for everything that is wrong with this country simple really!!

Regards,
John the crazy

 

[BonzoDog]

Like Grasmere, I have a son in the Police, this time in the Met. The idea of having him armed for everyday duty is appalling. Just because he is armed more criminals would carry guns and more would be prepared to use them. Once he pulled his gun in a situation with the aim of gaining control he would have to be prepared to use it. What a decision, what a raising of the stakes.
It is also wrong, in my view, to execute anybody. It has a doubtful value as a deterrent, mistakes are made and it is pandering to our more base feelings - and that is not civilisation. And civilisation is what separates us from those who behave in these ways.

 

[Bigtommy]

and do you know what - it will get worse before it gets better...

 

[grasmere]

and do you know what - it will get worse before it gets better...

absolutely - and when it does get better it will because it will be recognised that the only way is to hang the low life scum - and I mean that!

Unfortunately, today I flicked tv channels and caught a moment of 'Tricia' - I hate the program and everything its about. What was on discussion was girls and their gangs. Even sisters with knives and 'glassing' each other. They are the absolute pits of society or should I say 'civilisation' - wring their necks at birth I say

IMHO of course

 

[c13tay]

Punishment is needed. There is too much PC gibberish about rehabilitation etc.

Prison should be a punishment not an all expenses paid holiday !!!

If needs be, back to the old days of bread and water, and breaking rocks all day.

and whilst in prison, offenders shouldnt be allowed any "rights" - no voting, no winning the lottery etc etc

Seems to me that these days a crime takes place and everyones attention is directed to the criminal - "we must help him" what does the victim get ??? Nothing

 

[PJH]

Funeral Today of PC Sharon Beshenivsky

 

[RJIF]

Armed Officers

It wasn't that long ago that all our bobby's were armed , you only need to watch period drama's to see that the police force issued sidearms so why is it that the highly trained officer of today cant (under strict guidelines) carry a sidearm even if only used as a last resort in extreme circumstances. this country needs to show its criminal element that society will no longer accept the brutal and calous crimes that we see near every day, government must take steps to strengthen the police force, removing endless forms that officers have to complete allowing more officers to patrol and do their jobs.
also in agreement with c13tay, if prison was what it should be A REMOVAL OF LIBERTY then shouldnt that include THE REMOVAL OF ONES PLAYSTATION! prisoners today have a better lifestyle than some of us law abiding folk, room,board,3 square meals a day,there are britains homeless and familys in poverty stricken area's that probably struggle to maintain or even achieve a quality of life like that and prisoners get it for free

 

[glojo]

I think we must listen to what our Police officers are saying, at present I believe there is a large majority of officers that are against the 100% arming issue.

Prisons is a seperate issue, for first offenders it could be argued that the present policy is correct, but for repeat offenders it clearly is not working, we should start re-thinking why. I have said it time and time again, Prison should be a deterrent, offenders should be complaining about not wanting to go to prison. The noise at present is non existant except offenders complaining about overcrowding and not having en-suite facilities (slight exaggeration) more like they all offenders want single accomodation with toilet.

John the cheeky