Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[Fastcar155]

Hi , In Malvern we have two major charging points in the greater Malvern area.

Link Top : I saw one car on the charger out of eight available units.

Splash : These charging points are so unreliable again hardly used.

V Power for my C207

 

[markjay]

Hi , In Malvern we have two major charging points in the greater Malvern area.

Link Top : I saw one car on the charger out of eight available units.

Splash : These charging points are so unreliable again hardly used.

V Power for my C207

How do you know that the chargers are unreliable? And how do you know that they are not being used because they are unreliable?

I am not suggesting that this is not a case, I am asking because I noticed that half of what's being written about EVs is mostly conjuncture or assumptions that people make out of their own prejudices. So apologies in advance if what you have posted is verified and reliable information.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Just out of curiosity to those with far more knowledge than I.
I’ll be doing a regular 330 mile drive to the other end of the country in the coming weeks which usually takes about 6-7 hours. How long would it take in a run of the mill EV ?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Just out of curiosity to those with far more knowledge than I.
I’ll be doing a regular 330 mile drive to the other end of the country in the coming weeks which usually takes about 6-7 hours. How long would it take in a run of the mill EV ?

Well assuming you’d set off fully charged, then you would likely need to recharge at least once, or more likely twice for shorter periods, but if you’re journey is 6-7 hours long then either stopping to eat, or for a couple splash & dash pit stops will be required anyway in the real world.

Assuming that in a ICE car there would be same requirement to stop once or twice - then I’d say that it would take longer - but not much longer as long as it’s a reasonably modern EV and not a Mitsubishi iMIEV or similar. Maybe add nothing to 2 hours depending on the car and route.

 

[markjay]

Put the destination here and it will tell you:

ABRP

A Better Routeplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

Depending on the availability of fast chargers along your route, you may be able to get away with just one half hour stop for topping-up, sufficiently to get you there and back with a safety margin when arriving back home (20% battery remaining).

EDIT: you'll probably need another charging stop if you're planning on driving at 95mph all the way....

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

EDIT: you'll probably need another charging stop if you're planning on driving at 95mph all the way....

Standard.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Put the destination here and it will tell you:

ABRP

A Better Routeplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

Depending on the availability of fast chargers along your route, you may be able to get away with just one half hour stop for topping-up, sufficiently to get you there and back with a safety margin when arriving back home (20% battery remaining).

EDIT: you'll probably need another charging stop if you're planning on driving at 95mph all the way....

In an electric Ford Focus it worked out at 7 hrs 20 mins, just over 5hrs driving time and the rest over 4 recharging stops.
Good site that is for comparisons

 

[ALFAitalia]

2hrs 20 changing time.....in a five hour journey?....sounds a lot. Not a great selling point if that's accurate. In my car I would not need to stop at all...well at least if I had the bladder of my 30 year old self....now it would be 5 hours drive.... and around 8.4 weeing!

 

[Fastcar155]

How do you know that the chargers are unreliable? And how do you know that they are not being used because they are unreliable?

I am not suggesting that this is not a case, I am asking because I noticed that half of what's being written about EVs is mostly conjuncture or assumptions that people make out of their own prejudices. So apologies in advance if what you have posted is verified and reliable information.

Hi , no problem with raising an excellent question.

On the two sites in Malvern if they are operational a green light is show on the charger or if not in service a red light is shown.

I have spoken to EV cars owners on the Splash site and they generally charge at home but use this site as a top up.

One EV owner has recently received a parking ticket whilst charging his EV !

On the Link Top site cannot pass any comment apart from seeing the green and red lights on the charger.

The other reason could be EV cars are not being purchased in Malvern in any great quantity.

 

[markjay]

In an electric Ford Focus it worked out at 7 hrs 20 mins, just over 5hrs driving time and the rest over 4 recharging stops.
Good site that is for comparisons

It will vary from one model to another depending obviously on the battery capacity and the charging technology.

The Model-Y and the IONIQ 5 should fare well compared to the other EVs thanks to high capacity batteries and fast charging tech.

In fact, Hyundai demonstrated charging an IONIQ 5 from 10% to 80% in just 18 minutes, though this was obviously under optimal conditions in terms of battery temperature and charger type - at current only the Ionity 350kW ultra-fast chargers can deliver the IONIQ 5's top charging rate of 220kW - and these are currently available at only 20 location across the UK. But availablity of the super-fast 150kW chargers is now very good in most parts of the UK.

 

[Pontoneer]

There is no ban on ICE vehicles from 2030 , just a plan to stop selling new ones , something manufacturers have started to kick back against , so it is far from certain to happen .

In any case , i have no plans to change , I expect my existing car to continue well beyond then and also to buy more cars like W124 , W201 , R129 , W126 and earlier as there will always be plenty around .

I view the hype as an irrelevance .

 

[Pontoneer]

I think a watch and see approach at the moment.

I mean, fine, if you spend (in actual costs and depreciation) £20k+ on a car every 3 years, then why not go electric now because you can get fuel at (simplification) untaxed energy prices.

But some of us are much poorer, so, as a poorer, past engineer from a power generation/manufacturing/infrastructure company (you will all have heard of), I can only wait and see with no other option.

Major question marks for me around the whole electric car thing are:
- Massive (child) slave labour for battery raw materials (but people can reconcile their clean conscious because they are 'green').
- Untaxed electric which need to make up for fuel duty will need to be an increase of £1-2k per driving adult per household (based on 12k miles a year).
- The electrical generating capacity in the UK is on the verge of blackouts, so how will it keep up with rising electric demand for massively power hungry cars without? answer;
- A big rise in fossil fuels to generate electricity for all of the 'green' cars, at which point we get to the major elephant in the room;
- The physical electricity distribution infrastructure is creaking at the seams and I don't expect will be able to cope with 10% pure EV car ownership. Let alone a total ICE ban.


So to understand this we have to start to interrogate the politics behind any dubious decisions pushed to us by government, at which point this becomes a forum off topic subject so I will stop there.

There is no 'ICE ban' people with ICE cars are going to continue using them just as before ; manufacturers are pushing back against this ; nothing says that ICE cars will be banned , just that in some countries they cannot be registered after that date .

Any government that tries to ban existing cars will be put out of office ; if you think JSO protests are bad , you ain't seen nothing yet .

 

[Pontoneer]

Yeah I guess its more of a just live today, worry about it when the time comes. All cars depreciate anyway. Either way, you really think legislation around this will make any sense after all those things you already mentioned?

No , all cars do not depreciate ; cars such as W201 , W124 and many others are appreciating in value now ; a few years ago these cars changed hands for hundreds , not they sell for thousands ; genuinely a ten fold increase in the last few years . Even more so with older cars like W123s or R107s .

Only if you are of a mind to throw away money on new tin boxes do you suffer depreciation ; buy wisely and you can make money , if you are of a mind to change cars frequently .

 

[markjay]

While there will probably never be an outright ban on driving ICE cars, where things are going my guess is that ICE cars will simply gradually be priced off the road via various taxes and charges.

Of course if you're a die-hard petrolhead you'll just pay whatever it costs, however the last phase might be banning all non-zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles from certain areas at certain times.

My guess is that within 10 years of the initial ban on sale of new ICE cars, owning one will become expensive and inconvenient, if not totally impractical, to a point where the majority of people will simply give up on driving old ICE cars altogether.

To clarify, I am not necessarily a proponent of the above, this is just my assessment of what might happen in future.

In any event, I might no longer be driving a car in 2045... assuming I'd even still be around...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

While there will probably never be an outright ban on driving ICE cars, where things are going my guess is that ICE cars will simply gradually be priced off the road via various taxes and charges.

Of course if you're a die-hard petrolhead you'll just pay whatever it costs, however the last phase might be banning all non-zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles from certain areas at certain times.

My guess is that within 10 years of the initial ban on sale of new ICE cars, owning one will become expensive and inconvenient, if not totally impractical, to a point where the majority of people will simply give up on driving old ICE cars altogether.

To clarify, I am not necessarily a proponent of the above, this is just my assessment of what might happen in future.

In any event, I might no longer be driving a car in 2045... assuming I'd even still be around...

The principles of what you describe seem likely.. Whether it’s “carrot & stick” encouragement initiated by Governments (in the UK we’ve had the carrot already) - or natural “supply & demand” - either way the use of ICE will become more expensive and more inconvenient over time. When it might happen is to be seen.

 

[Manoerwar]

I've no plans to change any of our cars in the near future, however if the ICE ban is enacted then I would expect manufacturers to stop selling any new ICE vehicles after 2028, (sooner?). It just seems to make sense that they would switch to alternatives sooner rather than stockpiling things they can't sell. As we all know there is already a massive stockpile of unused ICE vehicles around the world. So, by definition the UK will have its fair share.

It will take time to phase out ICE vehicles therefore, it’s highly likely that the infrastructure will begin to shift to support electrical vehicles, what then for the repair/maintenance for the traditional petrol or diesel car? Eventually, the skill fade of the traditional car technician (mechanic in old money) won’t be there to keep ICE vehicles on the road. The bonus side is maybe the old car clubs will return!! I'll probably be long gone by then. So for me it’s watch and shoot for now and keep my cars chugging along come what may.

Remember, no plan survives contact and planes were going to fall out of the sky because of Y2K.

 

[markjay]

....planes were going to fall out of the sky because of Y2K.

You appear to be belittling the massive amount of work that my colleagues and I did during the second half of 1999 upgrading non-compliant operating systems and applications to Y2K-proof ones.

When I started my IT career (yes, we had pet dinosaurs back then....), the father of a fellow IT tech told me that the hallmark of a good building maintenance manager is that they are mostly sitting idle. But then management comes along and sacks them because they are doing nothing...

And yes, it's the haphazard IT techs, the ones that are constantly busy and work overtime and weekends, who are deemed 'an asset to the company', and who get to keep their jobs.

 

[Manoerwar]

 

[Pontoneer]

I've no plans to change any of our cars in the near future, however if the ICE ban is enacted then I would expect manufacturers to stop selling any new ICE vehicles after 2028, (sooner?). It just seems to make sense that they would switch to alternatives sooner rather than stockpiling things they can't sell. As we all know there is already a massive stockpile of unused ICE vehicles around the world. So, by definition the UK will have its fair share.

It will take time to phase out ICE vehicles therefore, it’s highly likely that the infrastructure will begin to shift to support electrical vehicles, what then for the repair/maintenance for the traditional petrol or diesel car? Eventually, the skill fade of the traditional car technician (mechanic in old money) won’t be there to keep ICE vehicles on the road. The bonus side is maybe the old car clubs will return!! I'll probably be long gone by then. So for me it’s watch and shoot for now and keep my cars chugging along come what may.

Remember, no plan survives contact and planes were going to fall out of the sky because of Y2K.

With the advent of sustainable combustion fuel , already being used in motorsport and classic events , the mining of fossil fuel will eventually decline , if not stopped altogether .

However it is far from certain that EVs are the answer , and they may yet prove to be as much a flash in the pan as they were back at the dawn of motoring , when electric vehicles were a far way behind steam powered road vehicles and both eventually ousted by petrol power .

Technologies such as hydrogen fuel cells look much more likely to succeed longer term , without the need for charging infrastructure everywhere or unethical mining of toxic substances from third world sources . Ferrari recently announced that they will never build an EV , and even VW suspended production after finding that EVs just aren't selling in the numbers anticipated .

I think petrol cars will be here to stay for a while and I do not think EVs are the answer in the longer term .

I also doubt that any government would dare price ICE vehicles off the roads anytime soon ; big business still relies on diesel trucks and vans to deliver their goods , and the vast majority of voters still run petrol and diesel vehicles ; alienating both groups is a sure fire way to find yourself out of office .

 

[ALFAitalia]

While there will probably never be an outright ban on driving ICE cars, where things are going my guess is that ICE cars will simply gradually be priced off the road via various taxes and charges.

Of course if you're a die-hard petrolhead you'll just pay whatever it costs, however the last phase might be banning all non-zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles from certain areas at certain times.

My guess is that within 10 years of the initial ban on sale of new ICE cars, owning one will become expensive and inconvenient, if not totally impractical, to a point where the majority of people will simply give up on driving old ICE cars altogether.

To clarify, I am not necessarily a proponent of the above, this is just my assessment of what might happen in future.

In any event, I might no longer be driving a car in 2045... assuming I'd even still be around...

I think (hope!) that it will be longer than 10 years.....current projection and sales forecast that only about 25% of cars registered on UK roads will be EV by Jan 2030........that's an awful lot of ICE drivers left to change.