Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[ALFAitalia]

You rebel!....Travelling with the gas turned on is a big no-no. All caravan and gas appliance manufacturers advise you to turn the gas off while travelling for safety. This is more due to having a naked flame running on your van, and associated dangers with entering a service station, than any issues with the fridge itself. Insurance is void too!

 

[TrueSpirit]

I understand all that, this was first highlighted in the media 5 years ago, and repeatedly and incessantly again and again ever since....

How often do you see in the media warnings about the use of welding equipment on building sites - in case of a fire, the entire neighborhood will need to be evacuated for 3 days until the gas canisters cool down (yes, this happened to me).

Etc....

It's like an apples and blue comparison. We're not being sold welding equipment to replace sellotape are we. EVs are meant to be the great climate change saving product we should buy to replace our ICE vehicles. I get you own an EV, good for you but in this day an age, the media normally report stories that will earn advertising revenue and increase clicks or push a narrative and the guardian is famous for pushing the climate doom narrative. In any case, that guardian article seems to be a response to try and downplay the risk of EV cars probably following other less favourable news articles from other media rags. If you read it again, there's a lot of use of words like ' low risk' etc.

 

[BTB 500]

I carry oxy-acetylene in my van. Don’t crash into me.

Many years ago I was looking at a burning Transit-sized van in London when it exploded, presumably when a gas bottle (or two) went off. I was on the 7th floor of a double glazed building about 150 metres away, and it was pretty loud, rattling all the windows. The roof of the van went sailing up over the roof of a church and landed in the next street. It had been burning for a while so I think the emergency services had cleared the area ... nobody was anywhere near it, fortunately.

 

[markjay]

EVs are meant to be the great climate change saving product we should buy to replace our ICE vehicles.

I, for one, think this is a fallacy. EVs do only one thing, and they do it well - they remove harmful exhaust gas emissions from urban areas, which is where the majority of the UK population live and work. But no form of personal mobility that relies on building 1+ ton metal boxes that are constantly accelerated and braked can ever be 'green' - the only 'green' solution is to have less cars (however propelled), and drive them less. The idea that we can all have cars and drive them to our hearts content without damaging the environment is both a fallacy and an idiocy (personal opinion).

I get you own an EV

I don't, actually, I do drive one, but it's on business lease, and I don't own it. The main reason I got it is the phenomenal saving through the very generous tax exemptions and the low running costs. But having lived with one for over two years now, I just can't believe the amount of cr@p spouted online by the anti-EV brigade. I don't know if it is because some people are Luddites, because they are ignorant, because they are envious, or simply because they automatically object to anything that the government makes mandatory (or any combination of the above).

In any case, that guardian article seems to be a response to try and downplay the risk of EV cars probably following other less favourable news articles from other media rags. If you read it again, there's a lot of use of words like ' low risk' etc.

They do quote the fire brigade person as saying that EV batteries pose a lower risk of spontaneous combustion than other types of Li-ion batteries (I am assuming he is referring to the exploding e-scooters and e-bikes), and that the EV battery in this case might have caught fire because it was damaged while being disconnected or removed from the car (was someone trying to still it?), but the implication is that in the event of a crash an EV battery could catch fire as result of the impact. Which is true, but so do ICE cars, and this would have been taken for granted and not reported in the news.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

When I had my caravan , it had two small butane cylinders in the front compartment , which kept the fridge running while travelling ( no 12S electrics at that time ) and a 15Kg butane for use on site .

it was a while ago as you will guess from my W123 towcar , although I did tow it for a couple of years with my first W124

But most caravans/campers do have butane , or propane in colder weather .

I miss that 280TE , but not the fuel bills . It was as thirsty as my mother's 350SL

That’s a cracking outfit - it would be super cool to roll in that combination today

 

[Darrell]

I don't, actually, I do drive one, but it's on business lease, and I don't own it.

 

[Pontoneer]

You rebel!....Travelling with the gas turned on is a big no-no. All caravan and gas appliance manufacturers advise you to turn the gas off while travelling for safety. This is more due to having a naked flame running on your van, and associated dangers with entering a service station, than any issues with the fridge itself. Insurance is void too!

Not back then though ; it was quite normal and only banned in tunnels . I remember having to stop at the Mersey tunnel and turn it on again once through , on the way to Wales .

Most caravanners , myself included , only had 12N elecxtrics , not 12S

If I go back a bit further , here's a picture of my dad , with his 1964 W110 190 ( not E because that wasn't an option then ) with his Eccles Emerald , we had many happy family holidays in that , the picture taken near Forres in Scotland . The van had a gas fridge , but electric wasn't an option back then .

Gas fridge , no electric option , but do note the chimney for the coal fired heater in the living room .

 

[Pontoneer]

I managed to obtain a W111 220S ( 220SE was an option bythen , but mine was twin carburettors ) never towed with it though . Always fancied an Airstream - now that would've been Uber cool !

 

[Pontoneer]

That’s a cracking outfit - it would be super cool to roll in that combination today

That was my W123 280TE and Abbey GT 418T ; as you say , cracking van : 6 berth - 4 upfront and separate rear compartment with two single bunks - we used it as a 4 berth and sent the kids to the back , where we could shut the door , Also had the awning where we could sit outside later for a glass of vino . Remember spending the night when lady Di had that car crash in the W140 up in Blair Atholl ; just earlier that evening we had watched a meteor shower with the kids , then that happened . Had two TV sets in the van , remember unplugging the aerial to the back one so we could tell them in the morning ; my daughter was upset as she was in early teens , our son was too young for it to have had an impact , and got stuck into breakfast as usual .

That van had a proper central heating system with a boiler which served numerous radiators around the van and a separate shower ;when parked up the drive at home it was plugged in to power and water and served as a guest room for visitors , also handy for the rare power cut since we could still cook out there .

Alas , the kids reached an age where it was no longer cool to go caravanning with mum & dad , so the van was sold . So sad , but times change ; I had happy memories both caravanning as a child and as a parent . Nowadays cheap , unmemorable foreign holidays are the norm .

 

[ALFAitalia]

I, for one, think this is a fallacy. EVs do only one thing, and they do it well - they remove harmful exhaust gas emissions from urban areas, which is where the majority of the UK population live and work. But no form of personal mobility that relies on building 1+ ton metal boxes that are constantly accelerated and braked can ever be 'green' - the only 'green' solution is to have less cars (however propelled), and drive them less. The idea that we can all have cars and drive them to our hearts content without damaging the environment is both a fallacy and an idiocy (personal opinion).

As much as I dislike EVs and will never own one overall (so that's manufacture, use and disposal) they produce MUCH less carbon than an ICE car. So as much as they are not "good" for the climate situation, they are way less bad. From Science Direct...
"The total life-cycle emissions of electric vehicles are reduced by up to 89 % compared to internal combustion engine vehicles. Modern battery recycling techniques can counterbalance the production emissions by about 60 % to 65 %."
Do I care enough to drive one?......naaah!

 

[markjay]

As much as I dislike EVs and will never own one overall (so that's manufacture, use and disposal) they produce MUCH less carbon than an ICE car. So as much as they are not "good" for the climate situation, they are way less bad. From Science Direct...
"The total life-cycle emissions of electric vehicles are reduced by up to 89 % compared to internal combustion engine vehicles. Modern battery recycling techniques can counterbalance the production emissions by about 60 % to 65 %."
Do I care enough to drive one?......naaah!

Again, it's irrelevant by how much an EV is less harmful to the environment than an ICE car over the cars' life cycles. Both are bad, and if one is worse than the other it still leaves us with a bad choice.

The only thing that zero-exhaust-emissions vehicle do well is... err... zero exhaust emissions. Great for our children's lungs, granted, but won't save the planet.

 

[Pontoneer]

As much as I dislike EVs and will never own one overall (so that's manufacture, use and disposal) they produce MUCH less carbon than an ICE car. So as much as they are not "good" for the climate situation, they are way less bad. From Science Direct...
"The total life-cycle emissions of electric vehicles are reduced by up to 89 % compared to internal combustion engine vehicles. Modern battery recycling techniques can counterbalance the production emissions by about 60 % to 65 %."
Do I care enough to drive one?......naaah!

I've read the opposite " that despite zero tailpipe emissions the manufacturing carbon footprint , combined with mining the components , and that they cannot be recycled , are MUCH worse than any ICE vehicle .

Having beenin a Tesla with plastic interior , no argument re never having one ; I'm of an age where changing is of no interest anyway .

 

[Pontoneer]

Again, it's irrelevant by how much an EV is less harmful to the environment than an ICE car over the cars' life cycles. Both are bad, and if one is worse than the other it still leaves us with a bad choice.

The only thing that zero-exhaust-emissions vehicle do well is... err... zero exhaust emissions. Great for our children's lungs, granted, but won't save the planet.

Zero exhaust emissions is not the same as zero emissions ; England still burns fossil fuels to generate electricity ; so does Germany , and these are just two countries where EVs are already being used , that is apart from the carbon footprint of making the darned things

Just saw this in the news

Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

Volkswagen is cutting almost 300 roles at a factory in Germany as demand for electric cars dwindles.

uk.yahoo.com

 

[TrueSpirit]

I, for one, think this is a fallacy. EVs do only one thing, and they do it well - they remove harmful exhaust gas emissions from urban areas, which is where the majority of the UK population live and work. But no form of personal mobility that relies on building 1+ ton metal boxes that are constantly accelerated and braked can ever be 'green' - the only 'green' solution is to have less cars (however propelled), and drive them less. The idea that we can all have cars and drive them to our hearts content without damaging the environment is both a fallacy and an idiocy (personal opinion).




I don't, actually, I do drive one, but it's on business lease, and I don't own it. The main reason I got it is the phenomenal saving through the very generous tax exemptions and the low running costs. But having lived with one for over two years now, I just can't believe the amount of cr@p spouted online by the anti-EV brigade. I don't know if it is because some people are Luddites, because they are ignorant, because they are envious, or simply because they automatically object to anything that the government makes mandatory (or any combination of the above).



They do quote the fire brigade person as saying that EV batteries pose a lower risk of spontaneous combustion than other types of Li-ion batteries (I am assuming he is referring to the exploding e-scooters and e-bikes), and that the EV battery in this case might have caught fire because it was damaged while being disconnected or removed from the car (was someone trying to still it?), but the implication is that in the event of a crash an EV battery could catch fire as result of the impact. Which is true, but so do ICE cars, and this would have been taken for granted and not reported in the news.

Thanks for the clarification on ownership. Ie being a lease etc. Doesn't change much in substance. I'm glad someone on here is so passionately defending EV cars to such an extent. Keep up the good work

I have close friends and family who drive cars leased by their businesses. One is a taycan turbo s , my uncle drives a company bmw ix performance i60. One best friend is ordering a mercedes eqs 55 which he is going for after cancelling his taycan turbo s. Another swapped his Panamera gts for a tesla then ended up getting a Q8 alongside. The common factor is tax breaks. However none of them think they're more virtuous than anyone else. They're not champagne socialists thankfully. They don't think anyone who is anti EV is ignorant or jealous. They're just making the most out of not paying the government some tax and having interesting toys in return.

 

[markjay]

....They don't think anyone who is anti EV is ignorant or jealous...

Perhaps they don't frequent Internet motoring forums as often as I do, and as result they are (luckily for them) spared the nonsense that some people post regarding EVs.

 

[Darrell]

I have close friends and family who drive cars leased by their businesses. One is a taycan turbo s , my uncle drives a company bmw ix performance i60. One best friend is ordering a mercedes eqs 55 which he is going for after cancelling his taycan turbo s. Another swapped his Panamera gts for a tesla then ended up getting a Q8 alongside. The common factor is tax breaks. However none of them think they're more virtuous than anyone else. They're not champagne socialists thankfully. They don't think anyone who is anti EV is ignorant or jealous. They're just making the most out of not paying the government some tax and having interesting toys in return.

I could’ve written this myself.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The common factor is tax breaks. However none of them think they're more virtuous than anyone else. They're not champagne socialists thankfully. They don't think anyone who is anti EV is ignorant or jealous. They're just making the most out of not paying the government some tax and having interesting toys in return.

What you’ve described there isn’t just your close friends and family, that’s just the profile of the typical EV buyer. In the vast majority of cases, the (tenporary) tax and therefore cost advantages are at least one factor, with others typically being:

Company policy for company cars
Company policy for business use
Buying a new car anyway
Performance
Exhaust emissions
Enjoy technology
Liking the way EV drive
Comfort, refinement. etc

Whilst there will be other factors that could be added to that list, it has been when temporary tax advantages, company policy and buying a new car anyway coincide; that has create the vast majority of EV drivers in recent years.

I can’t think of a single person who actually drives an EV who I know in the real world or online who “virtue signals” about EVs. I hear it mentioned much much more often as a generic and theoretical construct used in anti EV rhetoric though.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Perhaps they don't frequent Internet motoring forums as often as I do, and as result they are (luckily for them) spared the nonsense that some people post regarding EVs.

Just for balance......there is just as much nonsense said in their support!

 

[markjay]

Just for balance......there is just as much nonsense said in their support!

And I point that out as well - as I repeatedly said, there's nothing 'green' about them (or any other private car). My contribution to the planet isn't buying an EV, it's leaving my car at home and walking or taking public transport instead.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Maybe.....but if you have to buy a car and care about the climate enough for it to affect you choice than a car that puts out 80 percent or whatever less carbon in its life can't be ignored.