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Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

Traffic density is very low where we live and congestion/traffic jams are almost unheard of, so we survive OK. EVs are extremely rare round here.

As an aside my 71 plate diesel tractor doesn't have a cat or DPF ... apparently these are only required above a certain engine size / power output.

Personally, I would be happy if they only allowed zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles into urban areas. Full stop. People living in the country and rural areas can continue and drive their old Diesel Landies to their hearts' content. But I am not aware of anyone promoting this idea, so I guess it will never happen.
 
I never quite understood the point of Hybrid cars, not even the plug-in ones.

The reliability of any system is (largely) calculated by working out the reliability of each component and the number of components. The more components there are, the less reliable the system.

So you take the complexity of an ICE propulsion system, you add to it the complexity of EV propulsion system, and on top of both you add a third complex system to manage the other two complex systems. This can't be cheap to make and can't be cheap to fix.

I am fully aware that Toyota has an amazing track record for reliability, so that's probably why they manage to pull it off (Lexus Hybrids have been around for well over a decade, the Prius two decades).

But the concept makes no sense (and indeed MB's Hybrid were never very good).

EDIT: trivia - the Glock 17 when introduced had 34 parts, as compared to 52 parts for the popular Colt 1911. The Glock was cheaper to make (in part also due to use of composting materials), cheaper to fix, and much more reliable.
Three points to counter your view.

The potential for re-gen braking - the same as allows EVs to have range esp in city use. Every bit as useful in a hilly environment.
Zero tailpipe emissions for city use.
Simplification of the ICE component. This was a direction OEMs were heading. With instantaneous torque available the ICE's speed range capability could be lessened which would allow the deletion of variable valve timing, multi-turbos, etc, etc.

As an exercise in simplification Ricardo equipped a Land Rover Freelander with a Fiat 500 TwinAir engine and a degree of electrification in the form of a motor/generator and battery. The ICE didn't have a multi-ratio gearbox, only a fixed ratio drive. The electric component was to provide acceleration to cruise speed whereupon the ICE would be deployed. ICE at motorway speed where it is better than electrified and electric where torque was required and an engine as small as the Fiat unit was lacking (but frugal at speed). Obviously, the ICE could be run on bio-fuel.
Ricardo's exercise was to research possibilities. Possibilities now denied in the headlong rush to EV as the only permitted propulsion after 2035.
 
I, for one, think this is a fallacy. EVs do only one thing, and they do it well - they remove harmful exhaust gas emissions from urban areas, which is where the majority of the UK population live and work. But no form of personal mobility that relies on building 1+ ton metal boxes that are constantly accelerated and braked can ever be 'green' - the only 'green' solution is to have less cars (however propelled), and drive them less. The idea that we can all have cars and drive them to our hearts content without damaging the environment is both a fallacy and an idiocy (personal opinion).
You keep insisting that car use has to reduced but ignore everything else that could reduce CO2 emissions. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to take seriously those who advocate severely restricting the essential mobility required for people to live their day to day lives while happily indulging in needless air flights and/or avoiding a change of diet, reducing overall consumption/consumerism, etc. Adapt or die you say but other than a change of car - where's the adaptation that counts? Taking a bus or walking occasionally does not offset CO2 emissions from flying or meat consumption.


I don't, actually, I do drive one, but it's on business lease, and I don't own it. The main reason I got it is the phenomenal saving through the very generous tax exemptions and the low running costs. But having lived with one for over two years now, I just can't believe the amount of cr@p spouted online by the anti-EV brigade. I don't know if it is because some people are Luddites, because they are ignorant, because they are envious, or simply because they automatically object to anything that the government makes mandatory (or any combination of the above).
Really, you are resorting to the narcissism of the 'they are envious'. Try adding 'because they realise that EVs as a solution will not work for everyone and fear the restricted mobility that will ensue and the detrimental impact that will have on their lives' to your list. The anti-EV stance you see may well be attributable to the group you list but there's a group of people who fit my categorisation much larger than your groups combined who haven't as yet voiced their concerns. The electric light bulb was a brilliant invention. But as useful as a chocolate tampon in a house that didn't have and could not have electricity.
They do quote the fire brigade person as saying that EV batteries pose a lower risk of spontaneous combustion than other types of Li-ion batteries (I am assuming he is referring to the exploding e-scooters and e-bikes), and that the EV battery in this case might have caught fire because it was damaged while being disconnected or removed from the car (was someone trying to still it?), but the implication is that in the event of a crash an EV battery could catch fire as result of the impact. Which is true, but so do ICE cars, and this would have been taken for granted and not reported in the news.
To be fair, ICE cars tend not to catch fire in accidents in the real world. Fuel cut-offs and very well protected fuel tanks ensure that.
 
Three points to counter your view.

The potential for re-gen braking - the same as allows EVs to have range esp in city use. Every bit as useful in a hilly environment.
Zero tailpipe emissions for city use.
Simplification of the ICE component. This was a direction OEMs were heading. With instantaneous torque available the ICE's speed range capability could be lessened which would allow the deletion of variable valve timing, multi-turbos, etc, etc.

As an exercise in simplification Ricardo equipped a Land Rover Freelander with a Fiat 500 TwinAir engine and a degree of electrification in the form of a motor/generator and battery. The ICE didn't have a multi-ratio gearbox, only a fixed ratio drive. The electric component was to provide acceleration to cruise speed whereupon the ICE would be deployed. ICE at motorway speed where it is better than electrified and electric where torque was required and an engine as small as the Fiat unit was lacking (but frugal at speed). Obviously, the ICE could be run on bio-fuel.
Ricardo's exercise was to research possibilities. Possibilities now denied in the headlong rush to EV as the only permitted propulsion after 2035.

I understand how ICE can benefit from electrification.

The question is, why do we need the ICE at all, if we already have EV propulsion in the vehicle? Do we really need an entire engine, transmission, fuel tank fuel delivery system and exhaust pipe - just to avoid having a larger battery?

I am guessing that the majority of people buying Hybrid cars do so because they still want an ICE car and are trying to lower the running costs.
 
I understand how ICE can benefit from electrification.

The question is, why do we need the ICE at all, if we already have EV propulsion in the vehicle? Do we really need an entire engine, transmission, fuel tank fuel delivery system and exhaust pipe - just to avoid having a larger battery?
Because there is the very real possibility that there will be neither enough materials to make the bigger batteries (and don't overlook the banks of batteries required at charging stations to make fast recharging possible) or electricity supply and distribution to service them. Instead, ask why a mature technology is being jettisoned in favour of another's who's infrastructure may never be adequate when all the mature technology required to be carbon neutral was a change of where its fuel was sourced. Bear in mind continuation of said mature technology with bio fuels will never compete for electricity required elsewhere - eg, domestic, business, hospitals, internet, etc, etc.
 
You keep insisting that car use has to reduced but ignore everything else that could reduce CO2 emissions. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to take seriously those who advocate severely restricting the essential mobility required for people to live their day to day lives while happily indulging in needless air flights and/or avoiding a change of diet, reducing overall consumption/consumerism, etc. Adapt or die you say but other than a change of car - where's the adaptation that counts? Taking a bus or walking occasionally does not offset CO2 emissions from flying or meat consumption.

I don't think I've mentioned CO2 in relation to ICE?

The issue is that city centres are gridlocked, and many motorways are jammed - while we keep having more people and more cars per family, this is nuts.

The fact that all these cars also emit harmful pollutants into the air (unless EV) is just adding insult to injury.

As for advocating severely restricting essential mobility, I would be the last person to suggest that. What is happing now is that people who do need to make essential journeys in their cars are prevented from doing so because of all those lazy gits who can't be ar$ed to leave their private car at home and use alternative means of transport available to them.
 
Because there is the very real possibility that there will be neither enough materials to make the bigger batteries (and don't overlook the banks of batteries required at charging stations to make fast recharging possible) or electricity supply and distribution to service them. Instead, ask why a mature technology is being jettisoned in favour of another's who's infrastructure may never be adequate when all the mature technology required to be carbon neutral was a change of where its fuel was sourced. Bear in mind continuation of said mature technology with bio fuels will never compete for electricity required elsewhere - eg, domestic, business, hospitals, internet, etc, etc.

This may all be true, but it is not the reason that people by Hybrid cars instead of EVs. Ask anyone you know who has a Hybrid car, I think you'll find that what you describe above (again, potentially all true) never even entered their minds when they made their buying decision.
 
I don't think I've mentioned CO2 in relation to ICE?

The issue is that city centres are gridlocked, and many motorways are jammed - while we keep having more people and more cars per family, this is nuts.

The fact that all these cars also emit harmful pollutants into the air (unless EV) is just adding insult to injury.

As for advocating severely restricting essential mobility, I would be the last person to suggest that. What is happing now is that people who do need to make essential journeys in their cars are prevented from doing so because of all those lazy gits who can't be ar$ed to leave their private car at home and use alternative means of transport available to them.

I, for one, think this is a fallacy. EVs do only one thing, and they do it well - they remove harmful exhaust gas emissions from urban areas, which is where the majority of the UK population live and work.
But no form of personal mobility that relies on building 1+ ton metal boxes that are constantly accelerated and braked can ever be 'green' - the only 'green' solution is to have less cars (however propelled), and drive them less. The idea that we can all have cars and drive them to our hearts content without damaging the environment is both a fallacy and an idiocy (personal opinion).
 
This may all be true, but it is not the reason that people by Hybrid cars instead of EVs. Ask anyone you know who has a Hybrid car, I think you'll find that what you describe above (again, potentially all true) never even entered their minds when they made their buying decision.
I have no idea of their thought processes - or care. What is a concern is that ICE will soon be banished from sale soon (yes, the old ones will be unaffected - Hello Cuba!) leaving only full electrification with unavoidably bigger batteries and their recharging stations similarly dependent on bigger batteries - and neither the materials to produce them of the electricity to service them secured - and many many predictions that the latter will be a factual reality.
If people cannot be persuaded to change their personal habits now, how do think they are going to react when there's not enough electricity to go around?
 
..If people cannot be persuaded to change their personal habits now, how do think they are going to react when there's not enough electricity to go around?

They will drive less... ? Q.E.D.
 
I never quite understood the point of Hybrid cars, not even the plug-in ones.

The reliability of any system is (largely) calculated by working out the reliability of each component and the number of components. The more components there are, the less reliable the system.

So you take the complexity of an ICE propulsion system, you add to it the complexity of EV propulsion system, and on top of both you add a third complex system to manage the other two complex systems. This can't be cheap to make and can't be cheap to fix.

I am fully aware that Toyota has an amazing track record for reliability, so that's probably why they manage to pull it off (Lexus Hybrids have been around for well over a decade, the Prius two decades).

But the concept makes no sense (and indeed MB's Hybrid were never very good).

EDIT: trivia - the Glock 17 when introduced had 34 parts, as compared to 52 parts for the popular Colt 1911. The Glock was cheaper to make (in part also due to use of composting materials), cheaper to fix, and much more reliable.
I see the attraction as the convenience of ICE , no need to plug in to charge , with the ability to run electric if you go into a busy urban area


Oh and some of them can run both at once , with a massive hike in performance
 
If people cannot be persuaded to change their personal habits now, how do think they are going to react when there's not enough electricity to go around?
It wont happen because its not true......the National grid are on record as having said (several tines) that if every ICE car on the road magically turned into an EV tonight they could easily cope. Electrical generating capacity has gone up massively since the 90s....yet demand for it has gone down....add in all the renewables coming online and it wont be a problem....add the fact that electricity supplies will keep rising, probably less than 30% of UK car will be EV by 2030 and that lots of people like me will be sticking to ICE cars for ever if possible and if I can afford it.....then it becomes even more of a non issue.
 
It wont happen because its not true......the National grid are on record as having said (several tines) that if every ICE car on the road magically turned into an EV tonight they could easily cope. Electrical generating capacity has gone up massively since the 90s....yet demand for it has gone down....add in all the renewables coming online and it wont be a problem....add the fact that electricity supplies will keep rising, probably less than 30% of UK car will be EV by 2030 and that lots of people like me will be sticking to ICE cars for ever if possible and if I can afford it.....then it becomes even more of a non issue.
I'm glad to hear that. According to this article. although there's an improvement, there are still constraints.
 
I understand how ICE can benefit from electrification.

The question is, why do we need the ICE at all, if we already have EV propulsion in the vehicle? Do we really need an entire engine, transmission, fuel tank fuel delivery system and exhaust pipe - just to avoid having a larger battery?

I am guessing that the majority of people buying Hybrid cars do so because they still want an ICE car and are trying to lower the running costs.
Because not everyone makes short local journeys all the time
 
I read between the lines that you are suggesting that EVs are disliked because they are a symptom of the government's unpopular net zero policy. I can agree with that - but this can be left there, there's no need to rubbish EVs just to nail the government, especially when a lot of what is said about EVs is total nonsense.
Not directly. I'm not saying that but its a good point. People will arrive at different conclusions based on the information available to them and how they process it. Many many people will embrace EVs especially because of net zero and other policies. Many folks want to be helpful and do their bit. I know lots of folks who drive EV, are vegetarian or avoid meat regularly and make a big effort to cut their footprint by walking, cycling more etc. I equally know many people, usually well off, who are always first to put a pride , blm or Ukraine flag on their social profile who got EVs because it makes them look good. Then they're others who've done their own analysis and dont see these measures stack up to a viable solution and refuse to go along with it. All valid reasons to embrace or not to embrace.

You've probably highlighted above many views people have about EVs that are total nonsense, and some views will fall within that category. But equally many unflattering views about EVs are bang on the money too and others seem reasonable too.
 

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