• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

Bellow said:
Why have new sales of the engine been banned when the problem is with fossil fuels? Why not ban the sale of fossil fuels and permit the sale of ICE to run on bio fuels?
Click to expand...

Queue massive outcry from people with cars that can't run on pure biofuels (almost everyone).
 
Just going to buy a big v8 that is 40 years old, as demand for petrol dwindles it will get cheaper and as demand for electricity grows it will get more expensive.
 
zipdip said:
Well getting back to the original question I am going to ignore the 2030 ICE car ban because there is no way it will happen
Click to expand...
It's happening.....nothing to stop it now.
 
markjay said:
I never quite understood the point of Hybrid cars, not even the plug-in ones.
Click to expand...

I’ve got two so my opinion.
Negative perception - extra weight
Yes there’s a hv battery - weighs about 50kg. Also a traction motor (generator), inverter, inverter cooling system, extra cabling.
A guess says that all adds up to around 80kg (guess only) so the weight of a passenger.
Against that, the ‘starter motor/alternator’ is directly coupled to the engine. No starter/solenoid/pinion/brushes and brush holders/throw out fork. Rectification and regulation achieved by the inverter.
No torque converter
Very simple gearbox. I mean REALLY simple gearbox. My understanding is it is pretty much an electronically controlled differential.
Much smaller/lighter 12 volt battery (the hv battery is used to start)
I don’t know how much weight the above save but it must be considerable.
No rotating components driven by the fan belt. No fan belt.
A quick look (and I may not be comparing like with like) shows that the 1.8 c-hr is on a par with the similar 1.8 GLA

www.car.info

Mercedes-Benz GLA 180

There are 126 registered Mercedes-Benz GLA 180 in Sweden, of which 14 ara for sale with current classifieds right now. Average price of current classifieds: 239,450 SEK.
www.car.info www.car.info

www.car.info

Toyota C-HR Hybrid CVT

There are 8,765 registered Toyota C-HR Hybrid CVT in Sweden, of which 532 ara for sale with current classifieds right now. Average price of current classifieds: 259,650 SEK.
www.car.info www.car.info

Negative perception- the e-cvt makes it revvy and noisy. Yep in the c-hr the revs rise. It’s noticeable but a bit like being too keen to change down. It’s only noisy if you give it beans when cold. I don’t. Mrs Ted on the other hand…
Btw, the Lexus feels every bit as good as the excellent mercedes 9 speed box. Better when you use the flappy paddles.

Reliability with all of these ‘extra’ components.
Well I’ve not had a chance to test the Lexus/Toyota 10 (11) year/100,000 mile warranty (15 years on hybrid components subject to an annual check) but reports seem to suggest that hybrids top the reliability charts.

So what are they like to drive? Not bad. Not bad at all. Lots of torque when you pull off is useful, and all the silence of an EV at lower speeds. In truth I would have preferred the 2.0l engine in the C-HR but the 1.8l is plenty adequate. The gearbox is seamless and is perfectly matched to the car. It’s a nice drive. The Lexus is a fantastic drive. Brilliant in every sense (imho of course)

So how does it do on mpg?
Not fantastic on a motorway. At indicated 80-85 and lower where appropriate, I get 50-55.
Normal driving gives an easy 60 and sticking to speed limits will give more than 70. I saw over 80 once between Leamington and Rugby but you wouldn’t have wanted to be following me. (Nobody was)

Below was driving in Scotland after a fill up and sticking to limits.
IMG_7402.png

So my view is that they ARE a stop gap. No doubt about it. But the rumours of added complexity, extra weight, poor gearchanges and driving dynamics are largely unfounded.
Having said that, you DO need to take a good test drive to see how you get on. They’re different. In a good way (imho)
IMG_7669.jpegIMG_7672.jpeg

Edit: just reread it. Apologies for waffling on.
TL/DR I like hybrids 😁😁👍🏻👍🏻
 
Last edited:
Pontoneer said:
Nor are they likely ever to become classics - the batteries will die before they reach any decent age ; I doubt many will get far beyond 10 or 15 years old before they hold no useful charge and the cost of new battery packs will make them uneconomical to fix .

On the other hand , I've had several cars more than 50 years old , and even my current one is knocking on the door of being 30 years old , with plenty of life left in it .
Click to expand...
Not true.....as said, Tesla claim between 2 and 300,000 miles from their battery....whether the rest and more importantly the software will last that long is less likely. Only a tiny percentage of ICE cars ever get past 200k miles.
 
ALFAitalia said:
Not true.....as said, Tesla claim between 2 and 300,000 miles from their battery....whether the rest and more importantly the software will last that long is less likely. Only a tiny percentage of ICE cars ever get past 200k miles.
Click to expand...
Tesla can claim whatever they like. From what i have read Tesla's warranty covers their Chinese battery for 8 years or 100,000 to 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.

The vast majority of ICE cars in UK scrapyards, with the exception of Jaguar Land Rover 'products', have working engines in them when they are scrapped.
 
Last edited:
ChipChop said:
..The vast majority of ICE cars in UK scrapyards, with the exception of Jaguar Land Rover 'products', have working engines in them when they are scrapped.
Click to expand...

True. And likewise, the majority of EVs will be scrapped with perfectly serviceable batteries. What 'kills' cars early is mainly the very high labour costs in Western countries, then the cost of spare parts where pattern ones aren't available.
 
markjay said:
True. And likewise, the majority of EVs will be scrapped with perfectly serviceable batteries. What 'kills' cars early is mainly the very high labour costs in Western countries, then the cost of spare parts where pattern ones aren't available.
Click to expand...
I have never seen any data on the serviceability of scrapped EV's battery packs. Seems unlikely Joe Blogs can fit a secondhand unit to fix his EV and expect it to work when EV's are connected products and manufacturers like Tesla have a policy of not granting access/ updates to vehicles 'fixed' outside their network.
 
BTB 500 said:
Speaking of which I saw this picture the other day:

View attachment 146678
Click to expand...
Cable across the pavement, running through a plastic gully / trip reducer is a pretty common thing amongst the impoverished terrace dwellers of Fulham, Barnes, and Wimbledon. It's a thing.

Screenshot 2023-09-15 at 22.54.57.png
 
ChipChop said:
I have never seen any data on the serviceability of scrapped EV's battery packs. Seems unlikely Joe Blogs can fit a secondhand unit to fix his EV and expect it to work when EV's are connected products and manufacturers like Tesla have a policy of not granting access/ updates to vehicles 'fixed' outside their network.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of specialists out there recycling units and moving units from scrapped cars.

Not as common as engine and gearbox refurbishers, but certainly easy to find, not that many need to use them yet.
 
Here's a nugget for anyone considering Tesla economics.

I've just compared the insurance cost of a used Tesla 3 to an E500 5.5 estate.

THREE times the cost. £1200 instead of £400 pa.

Try offsetting that with domestic electricity at just 4p per mile instead of 32p.

(Bearing in mind that charger electricity will be far higher for those few days when you drive more than 300 miles in a day)
 
Pontoneer said:
Because not everyone makes short local journeys all the time

I know lots of people with privately owned cars worth much more than that figure ; one friend has an E-Type which must be worth over £100K , and a newish Audi ( he's a retired surgeon ) ; also another Jaguar enthusiast friend has a garage full of classic models , and a RR Shadow II , another friend has two Healey 3000s , an MGA and a Jensen Healey ; three of those are fully restored hence easily worth more than that figure ; I know someone else with a 1953 170S ; and if I still had my Ponton , it would now be worth more than that figure .

Privately owned high value cars are not at all unusual .
Click to expand...
I suspect the point was privately owned new cars, rather than classics. Most people finance brand new cars, most people don’t finance classic cars.
 
MikeInWimbledon said:
There's a lot of specialists out there recycling units and moving units from scrapped cars.

Not as common as engine and gearbox refurbishers, but certainly easy to find, not that many need to use them yet.
Click to expand...
Yes i have seen independents offering recon battery packs for hybrids, particularily for Toyotas Prius models probably due to their popularity as taxis?, but not for full EV's.
 
ChipChop said:
Yes i have seen independents offering recon battery packs for hybrids, particularily for Toyotas Prius models probably due to their popularity as taxis?, but not for full EV's.
Click to expand...

Not seen any reconditioned ones either, but there are lots of second hand ones on eBay.

Here's a snippet:

Screenshot-20230915-232343-Chrome.jpg
 
Hi,
As more EVs take to our roads there will be business opportunities on the sides of this.
There are already companies who are recycling older EV batteries for their 2nd use (as part of static battery storage for domestic battery storage installations).
Other companies are looking to disassemble and recycle EV battery packs.
Others will setup to swap or fix failing batteries with new and used batteries.
As with all business - new opportunities arise and keen entrepreneurs take advantage of this.
Cheers
Steve
 
ChipChop said:
Tesla can claim whatever they like. From what i have read Tesla's warranty covers their Chinese battery for 8 years or 100,000 to 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Click to expand...
What the length of the warranty got to with anything? Most cars only have a three year warranty....cars last way beyond that! Typical life of a Tesla battery is 200 to 300,000 miles. Then they can be reconned and used as power storage at solar farms.
 
ALFAitalia said:
What the length of the warranty got to with anything? Most cars only have a three year warranty....cars last way beyond that! Typical life of a Tesla battery is 200 to 300,000 miles. Then they can be reconned and used as power storage at solar farms.
Click to expand...
Feel free to show a source that demonstrates typical Tesla battery life is 200,000 to 300,000 miles. Why the 100,000 margin of error? Could it be because this figure is conjured up out of thin air like so many EV factoids.

The highest mileage model S i can see on AT currently is 154,000 miles.

Don't know about you but there are no solar farms near where i live. Where exactly are all these solar farms using old Tesla batteries for storage in the UK?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top Bottom