Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[markjay]

Feel free to show a source that demonstrates typical Tesla battery life is 200,000 to 300,000 miles. Why the 100,000 margin of error?

That's because EVs' typical power consumption ranges from 2 m/kWh to 7 m/kWh, this is a massive range. For the battery, a kWh is a kWh, regardless of how many miles were driven. In addition, the number and type of charging cycles also affects battery degradation.

(BTW, this is a legacy of a mistake made with ICE cars very early on, when service schedules were specified in miles, instead of engine working hours like it is with every other type of engine on the planet, including agriculture equipment, construction vehicles, airplanes and ships)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yes i have seen independents offering recon battery packs for hybrids, particularily for Toyotas Prius models probably due to their popularity as taxis?, but not for full EV's.

There aren’t as many EV’s in the world as hybrids. But there are battery recycling specialists out there worlking on older EV’s like the Leaf and Tesla

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Feel free to show a source that demonstrates typical Tesla battery life is 200,000 to 300,000 miles. Why the 100,000 margin of error? Could it be because this figure is conjured up out of thin air like so many EV factoids.

The highest mileage model S i can see on AT currently is 154,000 miles.

Don't know about you but there are no solar farms near where i live. Where exactly are all these solar farms using old Tesla batteries for storage in the UK?

Listings of cars for sale is no judge of vehicle life. Look for used Mercs on AT. You’d think that high mileage S and E barely exist, but we know they’re common.

A precise mileage estimate would certainly be false. Someone charging to 100% all the time on a high speed charger will damage the battery far faster than someone trickling a low speeds but for longer. Likewise a BMW M3 ragged by enthusiastic young owners with limited interest in maintenance will suffer a shorter life that an M3 is the hands of an older, caring Engineer.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Feel free to show a source that demonstrates typical Tesla battery life is 200,000 to 300,000 miles. Why the 100,000 margin of error? Could it be because this figure is conjured up out of thin air like so many EV factoids.

The highest mileage model S i can see on AT currently is 154,000 miles.

Don't know about you but there are no solar farms near where i live. Where exactly are all these solar farms using old Tesla batteries for storage in the UK?

The solar panel and battery wall usage is mainly in the countries that enjoy more sunshine. Look at the 99% of the world that lives outside the UK for examples of solar and wind power creation and storage.

While you’re doing that, note that the UK doesn’t have a lot of oil under its surface.

If you want to see solar being used in the UK look at folks who are using the panels on top of their roofs

 

[ChipChop]

Listings of cars for sale is no judge of vehicle life. Look for used Mercs on AT. You’d think that high mileage S and E barely exist, but we know they’re common.

A precise mileage estimate would certainly be false. Someone charging to 100% all the time on a high speed charger will damage the battery far faster than someone trickling a low speeds but for longer. Likewise a BMW M3 ragged by enthusiastic young owners with limited interest in maintenance will suffer a shorter life that an M3 is the hands of an older, caring Engineer.

Indeed. There is no typical EV battery life expectancy. It is pot luck. The secondhand buyer down the line is taking a gamble on a high value component. Explains the high depreciation levels seen on many EV's.

Also explains the number of EV's written off for superficial damage. Copart is full of them. Mileage unknown.

 

[ChipChop]

The solar panel and battery wall usage is mainly in the countries that enjoy more sunshine. Look at the 99% of the world that lives outside the UK for examples of solar and wind power creation and storage.

While you’re doing that, note that the UK doesn’t have a lot of oil under its surface.

If you want to see solar being used in the UK look at folks who are using the panels on top of their roofs

Seem unlikely any of the folks with solar panels on their roofs have a £10,000+ Tesla powerwall battery storage unit sitting in their lofts though.

 

[davymead]

Indeed. There is no typical EV battery life expectancy. It is pot luck. The secondhand buyer down the line is taking a gamble on a high value component. Explains the high depreciation levels seen on many EV's.

And exactly why the vast majority of the public won’t buy a second hand EV.

 

[markjay]

And exactly why the vast majority of the public won’t buy a second hand EV.

As opposed to buying a second hand Diesel car and then spending £££££ chasing AdBlue problems... it's not pot luck, it's a near-certainty. Yup, you should absolutely steer clear of EVs!

(BTW, there are various ways of measuring the battery's State of Health, State of Performance, State of Charge, capacity etc. But let's not ruin a great story).

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I'd have no problem with buying a second hand EV.

You check the battery health. I suspect that, given the motors are likely capable of up to a million miles, the concept of replacing the battery pack for a few grand will be a fine compromise on an older car vs the outlay of buying a new one.

And in most cases, it's absolutely fine. Some of the older cars that didn't have cooled batteries (Nissan Leaf) have made everyone a bit hysterical. Yes, if you owned one of them and did lots of 'fast' charging, you'll have a degraded battery.

But now they're all cooled and smarter - and once we get to the point where most EVs can do 400-500 miles, if a 15 year 'rot box' ends up doing 250-300 miles.... that's fine for the majority of people that need/can afford a 15 year old car.

 

[Pontoneer]

I suspect the point was privately owned new cars, rather than classics. Most people finance brand new cars, most people don’t finance classic cars.

I accept that , but it is still quite common for people to privately buy a new car upon retiral , perhaps out of a pension lump sum ( this is where my next , and probably last , used SL will come from , spending only a small fraction of that lump sum ) .

There certainly also used to be specialist companies who leased classic cars for business users ; it was never common , but it was possible . If by financing classic cars , you mean something other than a lease , I had in the past taken out a personal loan ( two actually ) to buy older cars ; once over 3 years ( a W123 ) and once over 5 years ( my first W124 , which was only 3 years old at the time ) , after which the cars were mine and all paid for , then kept for a further period .

 

[Pontoneer]

I'd have no problem with buying a second hand EV.

You check the battery health. I suspect that, given the motors are likely capable of up to a million miles, the concept of replacing the battery pack for a few grand will be a fine compromise on an older car vs the outlay of buying a new one.

And in most cases, it's absolutely fine. Some of the older cars that didn't have cooled batteries (Nissan Leaf) have made everyone a bit hysterical. Yes, if you owned one of them and did lots of 'fast' charging, you'll have a degraded battery.

But now they're all cooled and smarter - and once we get to the point where most EVs can do 400-500 miles, if a 15 year 'rot box' ends up doing 250-300 miles.... that's fine for the majority of people that need/can afford a 15 year old car.

Even if a motor did fail , it could either be refurbished ( brushes , bearings ) in the same way that an alternator or starter motor can , or economically replaced with a secondhand unit . EVs will be involved in crashes just like any other kind of vehicle , and dismantlers will strip them for parts as long as there is a demand for the used parts .

 

[markjay]

From what I read online, at current between 20% and 30% of new cars supplied to end users in the UK are leased as opposed to purchased outright. The figure is similar for the US.

However, 90% if new car sales are done via finance. The shift from finance to a lease isn't a huge step. If new cars become more expensive, I suspect we'll see leasing becoming more common.

 

[Pontoneer]

From what I read online, at current between 20% and 30% of new cars supplied to end users in the UK are leased as opposed to purchased outright. The figure is similar for the US.

If new cars become more expensive, I suspect we'll see leasing becoming more common.

And no doubt the vast majority are not privately owned but bought for business use .

I do still think , whenever I see someone driving a new car " there's someone who either doesn't own that , or is saddled with a mountain of debt " .

 

[markjay]

Even if a motor did fail , it could either be refurbished ( brushes , bearings ) or economically replaced with a secondhand unit . EVs will be involved in crashes just like any other kind of vehicle , and dismantlers will strip them for parts as long as there is a demand for the used parts .

The obvious issue with all modern cars, and even more so with EVs, is that repair costs are ever becoming higher due to the complexity of the modern car systems, and this means that insurers will write them off sooner than they would in the olden days. Radars, sensors, cameras, intelligent LED lights, etc, all are very expensive components that require expect calibration after installation etc.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Tesla CEO Elon Musk also once tweeted that the battery pack in the Model 3 and Model Y was designed to last 1,500 charging cycles, which translates to about 300,000 miles for Standard Range models and about 500,000 miles for Long Range versions.

On January 6, 2022, a Tesla Model S P85 (the oldest performance version) reached an impressive mileage milestone of 932,256 miles....1.5m km
It had a battery replaced under warranty at about 150,000 miles. The motors seem to be the weak point if doing ultra high miles rather than the battery. Three units were replaced by 680,000 km and the fourth one was running up to 1,000,000 km......no info after that.

The car is used in Germany by Hansjörg von Gemmingen - Hornberg, who is known in the EV world for setting the highest mileage records in Tesla cars.

 

[Darrell]

I do still think , whenever I see someone driving a new car " there's someone who either doesn't own that , or is saddled with a mountain of debt " .

Aren’t people strange.

If I see someone driving a new car I think “that’s a nice car”.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

So we're all in agreement then... in general, the longevity of EVs is a non-issue...

Aren’t people strange.

If I see someone driving a new car I think “that’s a nice car”.

Sometimes, I think both!

 

[markjay]

..I do still think , whenever I see someone driving a new car " there's someone who either doesn't own that , or is saddled with a mountain of debt " .

No different to people living in nice houses, then...

 

[markjay]

So we're all in agreement then... in general, the longevity of EVs is a non-issue...

Try telling this to the likes of the Daily Mail....

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

No different to people living in nice houses, then...

Shh, you'll give mortgage companies the idea of PCP'ing houses on 2-4 year deals...

Which is *exactly* what the moving companies would want... hmm, makes you think...