Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[Darrell]

That's the first link from Google:

What are the Health Effects of Exhaust Emissions?

Exhaust emissions which result from internal combustion engines have become increasingly regarded as a potential health risk.

www.news-medical.net

It makes for some very depressing reading....

It certainly does. It really makes you why you can pay to get around it.

 

[Darrell]

As @markjay mentions the population density is dramatically different in major cities compared to remote rural areas. Not only are there far fewer people to be affected there are also far fewer vehicles spread over a much larger area, meaning thy local emissions are not concentrated in the same was they in city centres.

But I’m in a ULEZ zone yet I’m not in the city centre.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

But I’m in a ULEZ zone yet I’m not in the city centre.

In that case then you’re not one of the people who needs to be protected, you’re part of the problem

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

That's the first link from Google:

What are the Health Effects of Exhaust Emissions?

Exhaust emissions which result from internal combustion engines have become increasingly regarded as a potential health risk.

www.news-medical.net

It makes for some very depressing reading....

I refer you to my original post. My grandfather was a boilermaker, making steam engines for 51 years, in the filthiest conditions that you can imagine. The air was literally yellow in his factory. All kinds of contaminents in the air, and all kinds of poisonous substances to the touch. A lifelong smoker, of course. Poor old fella, he died early at 92, outliving his wife by more than a decade, who didn't have to work in such conditions.

Was it the air that killed him? Or old age?

 

[markjay]

I refer you to my original post. My grandfather was a boilermaker, making steam engines for 51 years, in the filthiest conditions that you can imagine. The air was literally yellow in his factory. All kinds of contaminents in the air, and all kinds of poisonous substances to the touch. A lifelong smoker, of course. Poor old fella, he died early at 92, outliving his wife by more than a decade, who didn't have to work in such conditions.

Was it the air that killed him? Or old age?

My grandfather was in good health and working into his late seventies. He smoked a packet a day since he was 16. True story. And I know of several gym-going sporty types who collapsed and died of heart failure in their forties. There are always the odd ones out ... statistics works in big numbers.

 

[markjay]

But I’m in a ULEZ zone yet I’m not in the city centre.

Where you live, surely there's a town center, or a high street, with lots of shops, pedestrians, and slow moving traffic?

 

[Darrell]

Where you live, surely there's a town center, or a high street, with lots of shops, pedestrians, and slow moving traffic?

Are you trying to tell me that a town centre or high street with lots of shops, pedestrians and slow moving traffic is bad for our health?

 

[Darrell]

In that case then you’re not one of the people who needs to be protected, you’re part of the problem

Why?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My grandfather was in good health and working into his late seventies. He smoked a packet a day since he was 16. True story. And I know of several gym-going sporty types who collapsed and died of heart failure in their forties. There are always the odd ones out ... statistics works in big numbers.

Exactly, which is why I said that we need to see the big numbers of the effect of these changes.

When a child dies of asthma caused by a multiplicity of likely causes, it's naive to say that her death was purely because a London Council put her into a flat which was on a known bottleneck main road.

There's clear evidence that above average sporty activity is injurious to health. Men and women die prematurely from preparing and competing in IronMen, Triathlons, Marathons, or bike races such as the Prudential 100. Should we be banning those competitions too?

(Full disclosure: my son completes his triathlon in 9 1/2 hours (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, 26 mile run. Am I worried for his health? Only a little)

.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Why?

I was joking because based upon your post your use of your car is being constrained but you wonky feel any benefit, ergo you are part of the problem.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I am not trying to deflect... just to point out that we're talking about keeping people healthy and potentially also saving people's lives.

It would be very sad if it did turn out that we can't afford to have clean air in our city centres.

Those numbers of lives that absolutely no one seems to be able to quantity....if its any at all. Any numbers I've seen and been tiny in comparison to the capitals population. The only figure I see repeated is 4000 deaths.......where pollution MAY (or may not) have been a contributing factor all people who had other illness.....not killed by pollution per se. Sledgehammer....nut. Its not like in the industrial revolution or the great smog of 1952 where you could not see through the poisonous smog.....now that DID kill people

 

[DITTRICH]

I refer you to my original post. My grandfather was a boilermaker, making steam engines for 51 years, in the filthiest conditions that you can imagine. The air was literally yellow in his factory. All kinds of contaminents in the air, and all kinds of poisonous substances to the touch. A lifelong smoker, of course. Poor old fella, he died early at 92, outliving his wife by more than a decade, who didn't have to work in such conditions.

Was it the air that killed him? Or old age?

My father-in-law smoked and worked in a factory in the soviet union. He made it to 94 having survived covid and stomach cancer in the1980's.

 

[ChipChop]

But it’s only those people who are passionate about climate issues who are dramatic, is that right?

The voice of reason is very neutral in their choice of words, and would avoid dramatic terminology, like “weaponise”

Pot, kettle?

The only people the UK media choose to show being passionate about climate issues are the extremist groups like extinction rebellion, insulate britain or just stop oil. Every action they carry out gets free publicity. A balanced picture of environmental concerns it is not. Why do you suppose someone should respond in a neutral manner when navigating their way through this one sided climate narrative?

 

[Darrell]

I don’t think it will have a significant impact on asthma hospital admissions for three key reasons:

Firstly, the ULEZ only affects an estimated 10% of cars. 90% are ULEZ exempt and will carry on unaffected.

Secondly, the ULEZ isn't being created - it is being expanded. The most densely packed part of London was already covered. This is - literally - working at the margins.

Thirdly, the ULEZ does not ban journeys in older, more polluting cars. It is just charges a fee. Accordingly the main impact will be financial - it is a money maker, taxing the drivers of older cars.

I am sure air quality in London will gradually improve. But I doubt it will improve any faster than any other large UK city. And the reason it will improve is not the ULEZ, but the natural effect of people migrating to newer, less polluting cars over time.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The only people the UK media choose to show being passionate about climate issues are the extremist groups like extinction rebellion, insulate britain or just stop oil. Every action they carry out gets free publicity. A balanced picture of environmental concerns it is not. Why do you suppose someone should respond in a neutral manner when navigating their way through this one sided climate narrative?

Because all people who are passionate (or extreme) about a particular topic - whether for or against - tend to use language which reflects the importance of the topic to them.

It’s only seen as dramatic by those who don’t share the same passion or extreme views on the topic. Those with the same beliefs won’t see it as being dramatic.

It’s seen as most being most dramatic by those at the opposing end of the spectrum, and less so by the silent (or relatively quieter) majority, ie everyone else.

Emotive topics polarise opinion and lead to the most extreme views being shared with with “dramatic” arguments, and an equal and opposite “dramatic” reaction.

In recent years we’ve had quite a few emotive topics in the mainstream, with Brexit, COVID-19, economic uncertainty, environmental concerns, amongst others.

 

[markjay]

Are you trying to tell me that a town centre or high street with lots of shops, pedestrians and slow moving traffic is bad for our health?

Yes, if the slow moving traffic are ICE cars.

 

[markjay]

Those numbers of lives that absolutely no one seems to be able to quantity....if its any at all. Any numbers I've seen and been tiny in comparison to the capitals population. The only figure I see repeated is 4000 deaths.......where pollution MAY (or may not) have been a contributing factor all people who had other illness.....not killed by pollution per se. Sledgehammer....nut. Its not like in the industrial revolution or the great smog of 1952 where you could not see through the poisonous smog.....now that DID kill people

What you describe is exactly what they said about heavy smokers back in the seventies.

I suggest that you read the article I linked.

 

[ChipChop]

Because all people who are passionate (or extreme) about a particular topic - whether for or against - tend to use language which reflects the importance of the topic to them.

It’s only seen as dramatic by those who don’t share the same passion or extreme views on the topic. Those with the same beliefs won’t see it as being dramatic.

It’s seen as most being most dramatic by those at the opposing end of the spectrum, and less so by the silent (or relatively quieter) majority, ie everyone else.

Emotive topics polarise opinion and lead to the most extreme views being shared with with “dramatic” arguments, and an equal and opposite “dramatic” reaction.

In recent years we’ve had quite a few emotive topics in the mainstream, with Brexit, COVID-19, economic uncertainty, environmental concerns, amongst others.

ChatGPT reply? Looks very much like it to me.

 

[Darrell]

Yes, if the slow moving traffic are ICE cars.

Wow. Is that why places like Wilmslow and Tavistock are ULEZ areas?

 

[markjay]

Exactly, which is why I said that we need to see the big numbers of the effect of these changes.

When a child dies of asthma caused by a multiplicity of likely causes, it's naive to say that her death was purely because a London Council put her into a flat which was on a known bottleneck main road.

There's clear evidence that above average sporty activity is injurious to health. Men and women die prematurely from preparing and competing in IronMen, Triathlons, Marathons, or bike races such as the Prudential 100. Should we be banning those competitions too?

(Full disclosure: my son completes his triathlon in 9 1/2 hours (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, 26 mile run. Am I worried for his health? Only a little)

.

I'll have a Google search for any actual figures, however I have a feeling that anything I post will be torn apart on here as 'propaganda and lies'... will have a go anyway.