Wheel Bearing Failure - advice needed

[DITTRICH]

Having just entered my details on the how many miles / breakdowns yesterday, I suppose it was inevitable that my pride and joy would suffer today.
Last night, I heard a slight high pitched rubbing noise coming from the front passenger side wheel (a sort of insistent eee -eee -eee noise) and thought I'd better get the car into somewhere to be looked at. Even made sure I had my special "wheel nut" with me. I didn't make it to the independent, but fetched up at MB Canary Wharf.
They showed me that the front wheel bearing had failed. It failed because the bearing cap was not on properly and all the nice grease had disappeared - so I can understand why the thing failed. Thank god not on the motorway.
***
Anyway, question is, do these things fall off by themselves, or is it almost certainly something the dealer did, didn't do at service time? I should add that my car was serviced once in May 2003 'B' and once in March 2004 'B'
I have all the service receipts showing work done. I want to try to press for some discount, given that I think it's the dealer's fault, not mine.
***
All advice gratefully received.

Rgds

Les

 

[guydewdney]

worth a try - but i bet they try to pin the blame on a tyre changer knocking the cover.

no - they dont fall off... thats incompetance if you ask me.

 

[DITTRICH]

Thanks

Thank you Guy. I agree. I am just highly p****d off that by the time you hear the little eee noise, then its too late isn't it! (Sob!)
I am going to discuss this with them tomorrow.
The most recent service - no brake pads replaced - the earlier one I am certain some pads were replaced, but which ones probably not shown on the invoice - but lets hope they replaced them all!
Further question - they obviously have to check the pads - so do they have to take the wheel off to check the pads - or do they have some marevllously clever way of doing it. My premise is that if the wheel has to come off, then they should notice.
This tiny little extra bit of info would help.
Regards
Les

 

[guydewdney]

wheels deffo off for service of any sort - they shuld check things like this routinely....


asi said - they will try to claim you have been to a tyre fitter somewhere...

dont be too scared, a wheel beearing isnt that difficult...

wheel off.
brakes off.
cover off.
split pin out.
undo big nut.
slide off hub.
punch out bearings
replace (with new seal at the back - make sure this is done....)
grease up.
shove everything back on.

1 hour; 2 at the max

repair kit, front wheel 2103300051 110 dollars ish.

 

[DITTRICH]

Dear Guy
Thanks again for the extra info which I asked for.
Unfortunately, I don't live in the States, but in the UK so everything is taxed to death over here. But on the basis of what you say, the dealer is trying it on. They are saying 4.7 Hrs labour (don't even ask about the rates!) and its not just the bearing bit they want to replace. Parts aren't too expensive but dealer labour is very expensive).At the end of the day, I'd have to get the car towed across London to an independent specialist dealer (more hassle and delays). So I'll probably let them do the job.
I note what you say about times, parts, abd I've no doubt that given time (which I don't have) and the facilities / tools (which I don't have) I could do it myself.
At the end of the day, I just have to put it down to bad luck.
Rgds
Les

 

[guydewdney]

Im in the UK myself... I just have the US EPC....

the auto data CD states, quite clearly, that the time taken to repalce a front wheel bearing on a 1997 C230 is 1.7 hours..

I'd just get a grease tube / gun / toothpaste type tube of grease, or even spray grease and shove some in there, stick the cap back on and drive over to the nearest indy garage. its extremely unlikely that anything will 'go' completely or any further damage will occour...

but thats me not you.

 

[DITTRICH]

Thanks again Guy.
I did see the breakdown of the labour, and the 1.7 hrs was there. It's the other labour bits that I will need to concentrate on. I must say that there was an awful lot of grinding noises and the wheel was quite reluctant to turn round after that. I did test it at the roadside with the recovery bloke and whilst it did go backwards and forwards at 0-5mph, it sounded really awful. It went with rather a bang this morning. They showed me the bearing still on the car in the workshop and it was totally buggered - bits of sharp pointy metal "everywhere". The way it looked to me, I'd have to get a recovery truck to take it elsewhere. But then I don't possess a great deal of mechanical knowledge. What I will examine is the labout element with them as I think that if part A has std hrs = 1 and part B has std hrs = 2 ,then if part A and B sit next to each other then replacing both does NOT mean Hrs = A+B ...
I'll let you know what happens

 

[andy_k]

I'd agree with Guy, if they want 5 hurs to replace a wheel bearing then pack it with grease and head off to any garage that doesn't have an MB sign above the door

Any mechanic will be able to do the job for you at a sensible price

Andy

 

[guydewdney]

oh. ok - if its THAT buggered...

wheel off = 30 seconds with air gun (watch through the window / door and time them....)
then caliper off = 5 mins (so call it 0.15 hours...)
new caliper bolts are needed technically
plus the 1.7 hours to take apart and replace 1 bearing and put together again.

btw - passenger sides always go first (extra weight, roundabouts, kerbing etc etc)

 

[DITTRICH]

Gentlemen
Thanks for your sound advice.
The dealer doesn't start work until tomorrow, so I'm going to pay them a visit at 7am and discuss with them about how they might like to shoulder some of the labour costs themselves. I also think that I want to see the all the old parts they say need replacing. I think I ought to give them a hard time.
Rgds
Les

 

[guydewdney]

this is whjat should be replaced - the linked bits.

 

[andy_k]

unless the bearing has collapsed completely or the outer shell has shattered in which case you could be looking at a new hub or stub axle.

Good luck with the dealers and keep us posted

Andy

 

[DITTRICH]

Gentlemen
Andy has correctly predicted what actually did happen. I didn't entirely describe the whole problem the first time as they didn't explain it all properly to me (just told about the bearing bit). To recap, what actually happened was that the eee -eee -eee noise started 24hrs before the catastrophic failure occured. I wasn't going very fast (25mph), but the was a really bad "bang" from the wheel and the car "went down" on the front passenger side. So, not being a clever mechanical bod, I didn't know if was safe to drive it any further. I'm just glad it was NOT on the motorway doing... well... err, going at the "usual speed".
I was heading for Greorge Fraser in West London, but broke down outside West Ferry circus on the Isle of Dogs - about 1km from MB Canary Wharf. At that stage I didn't know what it was and so I called Mobilolife, who put my car onto the transporter. Towed it over to their place and they looked at it.
I was really in a jam, as I needed the car back on the road within 24hrs. I didn't feel comfortable accepting the Mobilolife hire car - and then getting the car towed to an independant before their very eyes. So, I let them do the job. Otherwise I'd have had to arrange a transporter with more delays...

The labour is always the killer part of the bill and when I have a spare moment, I'll type it all in for people to see it. All 4.7hrs of it. Even so, I did have a go at them cos they repaired the car by mid day next day. I queried the labour because, just like Guy said, they had the wheel off, brakes off right down to the bearing within 20 minutes. Yes they charged standard times for what they did, but I think they did it alot quicker.
I did try to pin some responsibility on them, but they weren't having any of it.
The bill was big and I'm too embarrased to say what it was. All the money spiders have abandoned my wallet and bank account.

I'm still not sure how it all happened.
To recap, I had B service at MB dealership (Marshgate Lane E16) in May 2003 and B service at George Fraser (Alperton) in April 2004 . I am convinced that somebody did not put the cap back on the bearing properly. I saw the bearing and there was no grease in there - it was BONE dry. If it happened in May 2003 , then it wasn't picked up in April 2004 - or the wheels weren't taken off at all. If it happened in April 2004 then all the grease would have had to have disappeared within 2.5months / 5,500 miles. Is this possible? My impression is that bearings aren't really consumables and ought to last for 10yrs / 100,000 miles?

Now I don't want to go back to any of the dealers involved.

However, there is a sort of a consolation in that I did get the other bearing caps checked and now feel that the car is safe. Having a young family and all that...

Now I'm starting to think I should have the wheels off after every service just to check if everything's alright. And maybe, when I move from an apartment to a house, I'll invest in some tools and start doing some of this stuff myself.
I mean, I read the body shop thread recently about what you should check after your car comes out of one - I was shocked, and I am cynical by nature for starters...can't trust nobody these days.
Thanks to all replies.
Rgds
Les

 

[Ian B Walker]

I'll invest in some tools and start doing some of this stuff myself.

Dont forget to buy an adiquate supply of plasters, possibly a bottle of Scotch, a good cigar (if you smoke) and a Haynes to throw at the cat when it all goes pearshaped. But in all Honesty I do all my own work using basic tools and get a certain satisfaction knowing that the stealers arnt going to empty my wallet again. The other plus is that there is so much help here on the forum its untrue

 

[andy_k]

"I'll invest in some tools and start doing some of this stuff myself."

4 different sized hammers is a very good starting point for any home mechanics toolkit

I agree with Ian, there's a great satisfaction in doing your own maintainance/repairs.

1, you know the job has been done properly
2, it's a whole lot cheaper.

I started doing my own work on cars when I was younger and couldn't afford to pay mechanics and run the cars I wanted to so I learned how to do the jobs myself and if you get stuck there's always someone who is willing to help you.

Andy

 

[DITTRICH]

Thanks for the encouragement.

You might be surprised to know that I only passed my (UK) test in 2000 having learnt to drive in Russia in 1998 . I have therefore never owned or driven any sort of car before 2000 . Having "started late", I decided to start "near the top" at the tender age of 40 something.

What I am trying to say is that I never had any incentive to learn what a spanner was for... until now.

Rgds

Les

 

[miro]

worth a try - but i bet they try to pin the blame on a tyre changer knocking the cover.

no - they dont fall off... thats incompetance if you ask me.

Clearly they do fall off - otherwise it would still be there.

 

[guydewdney]

they dont fall off on their own - with no external physical contact is what i ment...

vibration / bumps etc wont (or shoudlnt) make them fall off...

 

[stwat]

Even if it did fall off, would it not get trapped behind the wheel trim, or if alloy's the centre cap???

 

[Will]

If the bearing grease cap is the same type as the ones on my 1997 W202 C230K then they will definately not just fall off. God knows how that could happen, mine were a right b**** to get off!

I fitted 2 new ones after adjusting both front wheel bearings, and they were nearly as much of a challenge to get on!

And if they ever did come off (almost impossible), then as stwat said, they would be caught behind the centre cap/wheel trim. So if it wasn't in there, whoever last took the wheel/centre cap/trim off would have found it, and/or noticed that it was missing from the wheel hub!