Wheel Bearing / Warranty?

[franey]

A customer bought two front wheel bearing kits last month and had them fitted at a garage in London (a tyre and exhaust dealer)
Car is an 02 E Class.
Message received from customer last week to state he drove 300 miles and the bearings are faulty.
Returned bearings and they are the same as sold, identified by serial numbers.
Bearings are taper type so need only tightening gently as per recognised procedure.
I have never heard of one new bearing of this type failing before let alone two.
My thoughts are they were overtightened by the exhaust fitter?
One point of note on the garage invoice is the immediate reference to the customer supplying own parts therefore no warranty but other work is secondary to this.
Obviously I need to refund said customer but feel that the garage may have purposely over tightened them because they could not profit from them.
Thoughts anyone?

 

[johnsco]

There are several reasons why they may have failed.
They may have been pressed in incorrectly.
They may have been mis-aligned when fitted.
The setting of the end-float may well have been wrongly-set (or not set at all).
Cleanliness may have been poor.
Perhaps all four !!

It is inconceivable that two new bearings correctly fitted have both failed in such a short space of time.

The problem with a lot of "tyre and exhaust" places is that they may well employ a number of tyre fitters and balancers and a number of exhaust fitters.
They often employ few (maybe one) (maybe none) trained mechanics.

If you clean and carefully-examine the bearings, it may be possible to tell from the damage pattern why they failed.

I'd put my money on over-tightening.

 

[corned]

Obviously I need to refund said customer

Are you sure this is a good idea - at this stage at least? I recognise that it is a tricky situation, but this is an immediate admission of culpability on your part. If you have refunded the cost of the parts, i.e. admitting that they were indeed faulty, then you may end up looking at the customer seeking recourse from you for the cost of fitting as well.

Just a thought.

Why would the customer not go back to the exhaust place in the first instance? Or has he tried and got nowhere?

 

[johnsco]

The same thought went through my mind.

Is it a really good customer ?
That may influence your thinking.

 

[franey]

Spoke to the supplier, they have sold over 18000 of these worldwide since 2003 and how many returns have they had?

Customer has already had replacements fitted by same garage and returned the ones I supplied him with to me.

Supplier is returning them to the Fatherland for tests / examination.

They will send a copy of the report to me. I explained to the customer my actions and he is happy with this even though I told him there was a strong possibility he may have to approach the garage for his money back for the bearings I supplied him with.

I agree that it is more than probable that the fitter over tightend the parts, especially because both have failed.

The sad part is that due to his ignorance he causes inconvenience not only for his customer but for me too and on the face of it it now appears that I have also caused the same customer the inconvenience etc.

 

[lynall]

Ive fitted plenty of bearings in my time some in terrible conditions and never had one fail so they must have done a really bad job.

I bet they tried to remove all the play instead of leaving a small amount as required, dont forget most car and trucks are now cassette bearings ie you cant fit them wrong.

I bet report says badly fitted, causing overheating.

Are you sure they are the bearings you supplied? as all the bearings i have seen have the size etc but not seen serial numbers before.



Lynall

 

[johnsco]

I've also fitted a fair few taper roller bearing sets and never had one failed, either.
It's a common mistake to believe that all bearing play should be eliminated.
It seems to be an obsession with one or two MOT testers (who should know better).
I didn't know that bearings had a unique serial number - But, then - It's never been an issue.

Cheers.
Johnsco

 

[wemorgan]

Last year I tried to adjust the taper bearing on my W208 CLK.

For me at least it was a fiddly job as it was a fine line between over-under adjustment. In all likelihood I had neither the skills not the tools to do a proper job. In the end I left then slightly under-tightened, hoping this was the safer of the two options but ultimately paid a garage to replace them a few months later.

I did notice however that when over-tightening the bearing there was significant resistance to the wheel rotating. For the OPs bearings to fail within 300 miles, surely the mechanic would have felt the wheel resistance, or is it more subtle than this?

 

[franey]

Sorry, not exactly a unique 'per part' serial number but a manufacturers reference number.

 

[franey]

Not exactly sure the fitter was a Mechanic, it's a tyre and exhaust centre!!

 

[renault12ts]

If he did it wrong the first time, he may do the same again. It would be interesting to keep an eye on this one.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>it was a fine line between over-under adjustment.

Yes, it is - especially when you consider the end-float spec that MB use!

>>In all likelihood I had neither the skills not the tools to do a proper job.

As I've doubtlessly mentioned before, to meet the MB spec, you must use a dial gauge. With a dial gauge, the element of skill required reduces hugely - wiuthout one, and the job is impossible to get right. One could argue that if a dial gauge was not used by these tyre fitters, then, the bearings have not been fitted to the manufacturers specifications, and any warranty is void.

>>In the end I left then slightly under-tightened, hoping this was the safer

Yes, that's much safer than leaving them too tight.

 

[johnsco]

As I've doubtlessly mentioned before, to meet the MB spec, you must use a dial gauge. With a dial gauge, the element of skill required reduces hugely - wiuthout one, and the job is impossible to get right. One could argue that if a dial gauge was not used by these tyre fitters, then, the bearings have not been fitted to the manufacturers specifications, and any warranty is void.

I'd be surprised if the average tyre and exhaust shop have a dial gauge or have anyone trained to use it.
It might be interesting for the customer to ask them to what end-float range they set the bearings.
It wouldn't surprise me if the answer was "nil"
See my Post #2.

Johnsco

 

[andyshore]

I'd be surprised if the average tyre and exhaust shop have a dial gauge or have anyone trained to use it.
It might be interesting for the customer to ask them to what end-float range they set the bearings.
It wouldn't surprise me if the answer was "nil"
See my Post #2.

Johnsco

Hello Johnsco, what is the recommended end-float for the front wheel bearings? Mine is a CLK 320 (2000)

 

[Number_Cruncher]

Hello Johnsco, what is the recommended end-float for the front wheel bearings? Mine is a CLK 320 (2000)

0.01 to 0.02 mm

So, although the clearance is not NIL, it is very close to that. This is about half a thou in old money, and the clearance is so small, you can't actually feel it by hand. If you can feel clearance, it's wrong!

 

[franey]

UPDATE:

Just got the wheel bearings returned from Germany.

This is the report:

' There is some temper colour and pitting on the outer part. This damage can be caused by various circumstances such as contamination in the bearing, insufficient play etc.
In addition there is significant damage on the outer part.

Because of the above mentioned reason we have to reject your claim.'

And there ends the story, over tightening the most probable cause of failure.

Just thought you might like to know the outcome.

F

 

[lynall]

I bet report says badly fitted, causing overheating.



Lynall

Excellent



Lynall

 

[franey]

Do you think I should name the company that fitted them?