Woman, 84, dies in A1 'wrong way' crash

[stevieb15]

I can see this is going to be a long night....

Not for me I'm off to bed, but I still can't understand the rational which calls for annual testing of vehicles and once in a lifetime testing of drivers...when most accidents aren't caused by mechanical failure but by driver incompetence.

 

[Dieselman]

Not for me I'm off to bed, but I still can't understand the rational which calls for annual testing of vehicles and once in a lifetime testing of drivers...when most accidents aren't caused by mechanical failure but by driver incompetence.

But then most accidents are caused by drivers who have recently passed their test.

Imagine the cost and time taken to test 30 Million drivers again.

 

[Dieselman]

Since declaring a medical condition will require a thorough medical examination before you get your licence back, if you get it back.

That is for LCV divers, not car drivers...

Did this woman have a declarable condition?

A medical professional can inform DVLA at any time of a condition which makes you unfit to drive and your license will be suspended/revoked.

 

[stevieb15]

But then most accidents are caused by drivers who have recently passed their test.

Imagine the cost and time taken to test 30 Million drivers again.

I agree about the costs involved , but like the MOT/DOE it's all borne by the tested and would make our roads much safer...we manage to test 20 million or so cars/lorrys/vans/motorbikes annually, or more often, so if we can arrange that I can't see the problem.

 

[flango]

But then most accidents are caused by drivers who have recently passed their test.

Not sure thats true without checking the stats. I know most accidents involving injury are caused by 17 - 24 year olds but I think the bigger picture including non injury but property damage reflects the elderly driver is the worst category, need to check the latest reports and stats though

 

[flango]

All the stats are HERE if anyone wants to trawl through them, one for later I think.

 

[cinek]

That is for LCV divers, not car drivers...

I think I made it very clear I was talking about LGV (not LCV as you keep referring) not car drivers and not this particular woman

So we have selective hearing and selective memory, and now with your case presenting selective reading.

Are you that senile that the concept of medical test scares you? And be sure to declare the condition to DVLA at the earliest opportunity, as they may need to know about it

 

[Dieselman]

I think I made it very clear I was talking about LGV (not LCV as you keep referring) not car drivers and not this particular woman

So we have selective hearing and selective memory, and now with your case presenting selective reading.

Are you that senile that the concept of medical test scares you? And be sure to declare the condition to DVLA at the earliest opportunity, as they may need to know about it

Well thanks for the direct insults it shows the level of your thinking abilities.
As far as being mentally impaired I can only refer you to look at yourself as it is YOU that keeps bringing the medical reference scheme for commercial vehicle drivers into this thread.

The woman in question didn't need to have that review as she wasn't driving a commercial vehicle, so why keep bringing it up?

 

[cinek]

Well thanks for the direct insults it shows the level of your thinking abilities.
As far as being mentally impaired I can only refer you to look at yourself as it is YOU that keeps bringing the medical reference scheme for commercial vehicle drivers into this thread.

The woman in question didn't need to have that review as she wasn't driving a commercial vehicle, so why keep bringing it up?

You are spot on, I would never pay £5.9m for old Alfa Romeo as well.




Just how you like them, in full agreement with you and your way of thinking and completely out of context.


For the record, if you actually read what I said in my first post in this thread, I mearly pointed out that re-tests should be considered for all drivers just as they are conducted for hgv drivers

It was you who kept on about technicality between full medical examination vs assessment vs document completion which I tried to explained and obviously failed to do so.

 

[Dieselman]

You are spot on, I would never pay £5.9m for old Alfa Romeo as well.




Just how you like them, in full agreement with you and your way of thinking and completely out of context.


For the record, if you actually read what I said in my first post in this thread, I mearly pointed out that re-tests should be considered for all drivers just as they are conducted for hgv drivers

It was you who kept on about technicality between full medical examination vs assessment vs document completion which I tried to explained and obviously failed to do so.

Are you feeling alright? What has paying £5.9 Million for an Alfa got to do with this thread?



You KEEP going on about medical testing for LGV drivers. It doesn't apply in this instance, so why mention it at all?

Thats the thing, these regular tests are done for HGVs, why not for all other vehicles?

Cost and uneccessary.

Yes, thank you

I meant medical test not theory.
Plus CPC every 5 years from next year.

From the age of 45 you have to have it every 5 years.
From 65, every year.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-renewal-after-45-lorry-minibus-bus

As Ian says, theres a rather long winded form to complete, where you must disclose any medical issues you have.
Given the actual content, I would be inclined to say it is a bit more than just a fitness test.


http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_4020731.pdf

Not sure how many people would have their own HGV or PSV?
In princple, such vehicles are for commercial use.

However, I cannot see the Traffic Commisioner given a dispensation to 60 years old from his medical test, because he uses his own 32t, 8-wheeler to do shopping at local Asda.

Since declaring a medical condition will require a thorough medical examination before you get your licence back, if you get it back.

I think I made it very clear I was talking about LGV (not LCV as you keep referring) not car drivers and not this particular woman

So we have selective hearing and selective memory, and now with your case presenting selective reading.

Are you that senile that the concept of medical test scares you? And be sure to declare the condition to DVLA at the earliest opportunity, as they may need to know about it

 

[cinek]

Thanks for this wall of text, dedicated to my humble self.

Enjoy the rest of the day

 

[flango]

This is really easy for LGV & PCV a medical examination must be undertaken and the assement form completed by your doctor see HERE for what both parties have to do and are responsible for.

To renew your car driving license over the age of 70 you do not need medical assessment just a self declaration.

I think the point that is trying to be made is that at some point all elderly drivers should be subjected to a medical examination and a practical re test of their driving abilities, which I fully support

 

[Dieselman]

To renew your car driving license over the age of 70 you do not need medical assessment just a self declaration.

A doctor can have your license recindered at any time.

There is nothing to say this Woman was in any way unfit to drive, she just got confused.
As usual on here, we don't know the facts before loosing off.

As more serious collisions are the result of young drivers, are you suggesting that everyone should be retested every year?
That would be laughably unworkable.

 

[flango]

A doctor can have your license recindered at any time.

There is nothing to say this Woman was in any way unfit to drive, she just got confused.
As usual on here, we don't know the facts before loosing off.

As more serious collisions are the result of young drivers, are you suggesting that everyone should be retested every year?
That would be laughably unworkable.

A doctor can have your license recindered at any time.

Correct, so can a policeman, optician and social worker

There is nothing to say this Woman was in any way unfit to drive, she just got confused.

Confusion is always triggered by a root cause, the fact she clearly drove the wrong way down a carriageway means she is unfit to drive her full focus was not on the task at hand for whatever reason, the more elderly the worse this problem is, medical checks and screening would go some way to preventing this.

As more serious collisions are the result of young drivers, are you suggesting that everyone should be retested every year?

In the first instance I'm not sure that claim is correct, in the second of course I am not advocating yearly testing, what I am advocating is the toughening up of the driving test and better driver education for not only learners but those that teach them as some of the ADI's I've met and also had the unfortunate task of re examining are shocking, the quality of a driver is initially only as good as that of his teacher.

You can't escape the fact that some of the ageing nightmares we have on our road are a danger to themselves and other road users and should be removed with immediate effect, the only way to do this is medical and practical testing to ensure they are fit and competent.

 

[Dieselman]

Confusion is always triggered by a root cause, the fact she clearly drove the wrong way down a carriageway means she is unfit to drive her full focus was not on the task at hand for whatever reason,

Maybe a family member had just been taken seriously ill, maybe she had bailiffs at the door scaring the sht out of her, maybe a masked mugger had just attempted to rob her.

Maybe she was just finding texting on her iphone a bit of a challenge? (oops, no, that's a young persons trait and I've witnessed a crash as a result) So, once again, should we retest EVERYBODY annually and remove licences from all that cause collisions?

We don't know what caused her to drive the wrong way, but have already hung all old people...just because we aren't yet there.

 

[flango]

Maybe a family member had just been taken seriously ill, maybe she had bailiffs at the door scaring the sht out of her, maybe a masked mugger had just attempted to rob her.

Maybe she was just finding texting on her iphone a bit of a challenge? (oops, no, that's a young persons trait and I've witnessed a crash as a result) So, once again, should we retest EVERYBODY annually and remove licences from all that cause collisions?

We don't know what caused her to drive the wrong way, but have already hung all old people...just because we aren't yet there.

Maybe a family member had just been taken seriously ill, maybe she had bailiffs at the door scaring the sht out of her, maybe a masked mugger had just attempted to rob her

Doesn't matter if her mind was not on the job for driving she should have not have got behind the wheel or at very least pulled over and rested to re focus

We don't know what caused her to drive the wrong way,

Doesn't matter the fact is she did it and as a result seriously injured an innocent member of the public in the process, it's them and their family I feel sorry for. The 84 year olds family (If she has any) should hang their heads in shame for letting her continue to drive when clearly she was not capable of doing so.

 

[camerafodder]

A doctor can have your license recindered at any time.

Must admit I've thought of setting fire to mine a couple of times!

 

[Satch]

On a regular basis self or Mrs S. see the chap who lives opposite us engaged in a huge struggle to get his Honda Civic out of his garage, turn around on his driveway and then drive away at a snails pace. This can take up to 15 minutes.

Come across him on local roads and without fail he will be causing some form of chaos. Used to ride a bike for going into the village but can no longer do that: he is too unstable.

Alway been a difficult character but now getting very grumpy at anything and increasingly confused. He has lost the plot. Sad but true.

His wife drives and is fine yet he will not allow her to drive him on any account, so she either just sits there waiting for the blaring horns, flashing lights, abuse, hand gestures etc. and inevitable rage from him or does not go with him.

She now chooses the latter.

Mrs S. spoke to her last week and she is very unhappy, because he refuses to listen to her, his children friends or anybody. She also knows that if he is declared unfit to drive, things will get a lot worse in terms of their already strained relationship.

So his family are awaiting the inevitable

 

[Dieselman]

Doesn't matter the fact is she did it and as a result seriously injured an innocent member of the public in the process, it's them and their family I feel sorry for. The 84 year olds family (If she has any) should hang their heads in shame for letting her continue to drive when clearly she was not capable of doing so.

A very sweeping statement considering you don't know any facts.

Does the same apply to every driver of any age if they have a crash?

 

[flango]

A very sweeping statement considering you don't know any facts.

Does the same apply to every driver of any age if they have a crash?

I know the facts of what causes accidents and I linked to them in my earlier post, that's good enough for me.

It would apply in the case where relatives or friends knew the driver to be incompetent yet did nothing about it. After every accident I would not only apportion blame to the guilty party, but then when it was ascertained who was guilty they would be interviewed and tested/profiled for their competence to drive if this threw up any worrying factors then they would be put on compulsory driver improvement programmes or have their license revoked until they had resat their test.