Yet another tragedy on the roads

[219]

I heard about this incident on my car radio yesterday morning .

Tragically , a driver stopped on the hard shoulder to change a wheel and was struck and killed by a passing vehicle .

BBC News - Man dies after car and van crash on M74 in Lanarkshire

While these incidents happen quite regularly , it strikes me that there is a simple and obvious solution which , although it would cost , would go a long way to avoiding many of these incidents .

Why not , every mile or so along the motorway , widen the hard shoulder into the grass verge and create a refuge with a length of Armco in front of it , where people could pull in to change wheels etc in relative safety ? Even without the Armco , widening the hard shoulder into a sort of lay-by further from the carriageway would much reduce the chances of being hit . Adding a rumble strip along the edge of the carriageway in the vicinity of the refuge would further warn dozy drivers if they were straying out of lane .

Certainly with punctures ( probably the most common breakdown that results in people being out of their car at the roadside ) , it would be possible to limp along the hard shoulder to the next refuge ; equally many other common breakdowns such as overheating , fan belt failure etc , there is some warning and a short distance can be covered to a place of safety .

I know there may not be space available to to this everywhere , and , yes , it would cost , but the cost of a rolling programme of road improvements hardly compares to the cost of human life .

 

[davidjpowell]

Well - they are doing some of this in a way in England. But at the same time the Hard Shoulder becomes a running lane, for at least some of the time, but maxed at 60mph....

 

[Mr Kripling]

The cost of a rolling programme of road improvements hardly compares to the cost of human life

I'm afraid it does. If, say, 20 people are killed each year attempting roadside repairs on the motorway and the cost of implementing refuges across the entire network is, say, £200 million, I don't think spending £10m to save a single person is worthwhile.

A much more efficient use of resources would simply be to tell people not to attempt repairs on the motorway.

Harry

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I had a discussion about this in the office a few weeks back, I said that if I had a flat on the Motorway id call the AA as its not worth the risk to do it myself.

Everyone in the office called me a whimp as I wouldnt attempt it myself.

 

[davidjpowell]

I had a discussion about this in the office a few weeks back, I said that if I had a flat on the Motorway id call the AA as its not worth the risk to do it myself.

Everyone in the office called me a whimp as I wouldnt attempt it myself.

I'll change the nearside. Offside I have and will call AA.

 

[DSB SL AMG]

+1 totally agree Karl...and I have changed many on the hard shoulder, but I am in the AA and I think its just not worth the risk...

I had a discussion about this in the office a few weeks back, I said that if I had a flat on the Motorway id call the AA as its not worth the risk to do it myself.

Everyone in the office called me a whimp as I wouldnt attempt it myself.

 

[BTB 500]

I'm pretty sure the recommendation is not to change a wheel yourself on the motorway.

I had to put the space saver on our S203 the other week and would never have managed that by the roadside anyway. The usual struggle to undo the bolts, but then the wheel was stuck on the hub. Needed a block of wood and a club hammer to get it off, neither of which would have been in the boot

 

[DSB SL AMG]

Yep...your right, AA web site info below

For your own safety

• Don't try to change a wheel on the hard shoulder of a motorway or at the side of a road. Turn off or pull over well away from the traffic and call for help.
• Don't try to change a wheel on soft, loose or uneven ground.
• Don't try to change a wheel with passengers still in the car. Move everyone to a place of safety, well away from the vehicle and carriageway.
• Don't work under a car while it's raised on a jack.
• Don't try to use the jack anywhere other than at the specified jacking points – attaching the jack in the wrong place can cause damage to the car and/or risks it collapsing when lifted.

I'm pretty sure the recommendation is not to change a wheel yourself on the motorway.

I had to put the space saver on our S203 the other week and would never have managed that by the roadside anyway. The usual struggle to undo the bolts, but then the wheel was stuck on the hub. Needed a block of wood and a club hammer to get it off, neither of which would have been in the boot

 

[RWDpetrol]

I wrote a car off aquaplaning and mounting the barrier on the hard shoulder. Before that I used to think hard shoulders were relatively safe.

And this topic is one massive reason why I love runflat tyres.

 

[219]

I'm afraid it does. If, say, 20 people are killed each year attempting roadside repairs on the motorway and the cost of implementing refuges across the entire network is, say, £200 million, I don't think spending £10m to save a single person is worthwhile.

A much more efficient use of resources would simply be to tell people not to attempt repairs on the motorway.

Harry

The figures are a bit higher than that . On average , there is a KSI on a UK hard shoulder about once a week ; less serious injury incidents happen hundreds of times every year , and minor incidents/near misses constantly .

Even if you don't value human life too highly , the cost of dealing with each incident adds up , what with emergency services , aftercare , loss of earnings , insurance payouts etc . Avoiding incidents will result in a huge cash saving , as well as avoidance of human tragedy , which most would say is priceless .

Re spending even £200m : I'd rather spend it on road improvements to save life than on another warship or nuclear missiles , each of which we already have more than enough .

Further to roadside repairs , I'd rather change my wheel ( with suitable precautions ) and be on my way in 10 mins , than have my car sat there for an hour , at risk of being hit and injuring the other person or any third party they might rebound into - even though I might be watching from a distance .

 

[Giantvanman]

I used to think hard shoulders were relatively safe.

They are the most dangerous place……..drivers tend to steer where they look and something 'happening' on the hard shoulder is like a magnet to the rubber-necker. Many times have I had to leap the barrier or shout a warning to others to do the same.

As to whether or not motorways should have hard shoulders, the argument against would be dual carriageways; most have no hard shoulder and or warning matrices (or much fewer) but have the same maximum speed limit in most cases.

 

[Mr Kripling]

Even if you don't value human life too highly , the cost of dealing with each incident adds up , what with emergency services , aftercare , loss of earnings , insurance payouts etc . Avoiding incidents will result in a huge cash saving , as well as avoidance of human tragedy , which most would say is priceless .

My point was that any decision needs to be made on the basis of costs and benefits. The "If it saves one life" argument doesn't make any economic sense.

By way of example, if most of the KSI incidents on the roads are due to people making repairs at the side of the road, it makes more sense to try and stop people attempting them in the first place than it does in changing the motorway network to accommodate them.

 

[Dryce]

Avoiding incidents will result in a huge cash saving , as well as avoidance of human tragedy , which most would say is priceless .

If it's priceless then the journey will never be worth the risk.

Clearly people are willing to compromise.

 

[219]

I wouldn't say they are due to people making repairs : even if they do involve people making repairs , they are due to passing drivers not paying enough attention .

I also feel that disallowing people to effect repairs and be on their way , in favour of compelling them to await assistance is a slippery slope towards creating a monopoly for commercial organisations , as well as 'dumbing down' the modern motorist evan more than has already been done .

Oh , and AA or other patrolmen are not immune from being run into either ; I have , like GVM above , had to jump over barriers to avoid approaching traffic , despite there being multiple emergency vehicles , all with blue lights going , there to warn of the hazard .

There is a strong economic argument that the savings resulting from crashes that would be avoided by the improvements would pay for them .

 

[219]

If it's priceless then the journey will never be worth the risk.

Clearly people are willing to compromise.

Well , we all make our own risk assessments ; most of the time I perceive the risks of road travel to be quite low .

 

[Mr Kripling]

There is a strong economic argument that the savings resulting from crashes that would be avoided by the improvements would pay for them.

Happy to be convinced on that front, I'd just like to see the numbers first.

a slippery slope towards creating a monopoly for commercial organisations

So pretty much like mandatory car insurance, then?

 

[gbjeppm]

Highway code, states do not even attempt simple repairs

2. Additional rules for motorways (275 to 278)
275
If your vehicle develops a problem, leave the motorway at the next exit or pull into a service area. If you cannot do so, you should:

pull on to the hard shoulder and stop as far to the left as possible, with your wheels turned to the left

try to stop near an emergency telephone (situated at approximately one-mile intervals along the hard shoulder)

leave the vehicle by the left-hand door and ensure your passengers do the same. You MUST leave any animals in the vehicle or, in an emergency, keep them under proper control on the verge.

Never attempt to place a warning triangle on a motorway

do not put yourself in danger by attempting even simple repairs

ensure that passengers keep away from the carriageway and hard shoulder, and that children are kept under control

walk to an emergency telephone on your side of the carriageway (follow the arrows on the posts at the back of the hard shoulder) – the telephone is free of charge and connects directly to the Highways Agency or the police. Use these in preference to a mobile phone (see Rule 283). Always face the traffic when you speak on the phone

give full details to the Highways Agency or the police; also inform them if you are a vulnerable motorist such as disabled, older or travelling alone
return and wait near your vehicle (well away from the carriageway and hard shoulder)

if you feel at risk from another person, return to your vehicle by a left-hand door and lock all doors. Leave your vehicle again as soon as you feel this danger has passed.

 

[markjay]

...Why not , every mile or so along the motorway , widen the hard shoulder into the grass verge and create a refuge with a length of Armco in front of it , where people could pull in to change wheels etc in relative safety ? Even without the Armco , widening the hard shoulder into a sort of lay-by further from the carriageway would much reduce the chances of being hit . Adding a rumble strip along the edge of the carriageway in the vicinity of the refuge would further warn dozy drivers if they were straying out of lane ....

They have these on the Autostrada in Italy.

 

[bpsorrel]

I'm thinking of trying this product as I have no wish to get hit by a truck or car at the side of the road whilst attempting to change a wheel!

Car/Commercial Tyre Sealant - Ride On UK

If I do try it, I'll report back if it's any good.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

A few years ago I ran out of fuel on the M3 whilst in a company pool car that had a very inaccurate OBC (but nobody had told me!). To make matters worse, it was in a section of roadworks and the hard shoulder was in use as a lane. Whilst waiting for a colleague to arrive with a can of petrol, countless motorists stopped so close behind they couldn't pull out, despite me having coasted as far onto the grass as I could. Some even hooted and shook their fists at me (sitting as far up the grass bank as I could). The result was a tailback of a few miles that was reported on Radio 2 (my only claim to fame). When my colleague eventually managed to get through all the traffic with the fuel I was left with the task of pouring it into the tank - from the filler on the driver's side! It was bleeding terrifying and I'm sure that it's only because I don't have a big **** that it wasn't knocked off!