Yoofs

[c63chris]

Not sure which planet you’re living on ?

Of course identification is key . Without that you have complete anarchy. Of course it works , speeding tickets and so many other offences dealt with daily , stolen cars identified and stopped , petrol thieves apprehended, untaxed , unMOTd , uninsured vehicles identified and stopped , vehicles with markers on identified and stopped . Tried , tested and proven : IT WORKS.

Bicycles, no , but the marker is on the person , not the bike ; identify the rider , not the bike . If caught not wearing a vest , bike is taken and destroyed , again and again and again , relentlessly, they will soon stop . Caught 3 times : jail - even 48 hours or a week in jail will make them think , and they’re young and fit , make them dig old people’s gardens , fill in potholes , repair dams , pick up dog sh!t , whatever , if they repeat offend - escalate sentences . Catch them , wear them down . If they’re from London ship them to other end of country, if they’re claimants , stop their benefits - that may sound harsh but if they choose crime they choose the consequences. They are wasters - why should we taxpayers subsidise them ? Except for disability, all claimants should do community work in return for their benefits .

If moped crime is an issue down there , get more motorcycle police and make a culture of stopping ALL mopeds until it is no longer the crime of choice .

You feel it’s choice ? Drink driving was made socially unacceptable; do the same with bicycle hooners : show them damaging peoples property, show them hurting innocent pedestrians , demonise them in the pubic eyes , even more than already .

Too many people take the side of these wrongdoers ; it’s time the silent majority fought back .

If I were you I’d calm down and re-read this tomorrow. If you really think this is workable, sensible or rational then there’s no more to say and I’m out.

 

[Fununcle]

Pontoneer, unfortunately people with views like yours are not silent but thankfully they are also nothing like the majority.

 

[219]

Applying methods of ID to all cyclists for a minority of cyclists who exhibit anti social behaviour is disproportionate and will deter the uptake of cycling at a time when we need to be considering taking to bikes and driving less. (In the context as presented the bureaucratic and financial hurdles will make it so). The next step in inviolate identification is us all microchipped like dogs. I'd watch cyclists risk running red lights before submitting to that.

I’d change the culture and give all P7 kids their ID number for life when they do their cycling proficiency.

It isn’t a big ask , people accept motorised vehicles being identified, no reason cycles shouldn’t be the same .

But identify the riders , not the bikes .

Good cyclists can use their identity to disassociate from the bad .

It will come .

Cycling is a privilege , like driving .

If I were you I’d calm down and re-read this tomorrow. If you really think this is workable, sensible or rational then there’s no more to say and I’m out.

Good , because you seem to have been taking the side of these idiots since the beginning, at variance with the opinions of most members of public .

 

[E55BOF]

Pontoneer, unfortunately people with views like yours are not silent but thankfully they are also nothing like the majority.

Fununcle, unfortunately people with views like yours would presumably prefer that those with different views did not express them. Thankfully, they too are nothing like in the majority.

Isn't free speech wonderful?

 

[219]

Pontoneer, unfortunately people with views like yours are not silent but thankfully they are also nothing like the majority.

Oh , I think we are both silent and the majority , although on here a vocal minority seem to be taking the side of these criminals.

 

[Bellow]

I think most of them are absent by choice, not because they're in jail. I don't have a solution, but I don't regard expecting society, or the State, or whoever, to 'step up' in their place as a viable solution, and I certainly don't support raising my taxes to pay for it.

Some by choice - which raises question about society's attitude to parenting and more pointedly to a culture of 'forever young' which the entire developed world pivots around.
'Step up' - invariably when kids with absent fathers are presented with a credible role model (youth clubs, sports clubs, etc, etc can provide this) the results are positive, often transformative.
In any male prison a high proportion of its inmates will be fathers. Many of them with children not yet adults. In the case of providing for youth provision, that may come from taxation. When prisons are needlessly populated by those who present no danger to society and for which there are other punishments available - not only will the costs be met from taxation but those costs are considerable.
In one case you save a few quid to spend much much more when you jail the kids when they progress to crime in adulthood, in the other, you pay through the nose for failed policies while showing no desire to change them.

 

[219]

I suspect that over a decade of cutting back on public spending that used to provide support and activities for our youth will not have helped. I think historically there has been a link between prosperity and crime as well. What really saddens me is it seems no effort is being made to understand why people are behaving like they are

There is still plenty of support for young people around here - if they choose to look for it .

My 11 year old son goes to Spanish lessons on Tuesdays , funded by the council , and it is well attended . Wednesdays, Boys Brigade in the church hall , subsidised by the church ; Thursdays - piano lessons , private , paid for by us , Fridays , Scouts , in a different church hall and subsidised by that church , of course for the Scouts and BBs we help with fund raisers . Oh and once a month he gets a driving lesson paid for by me . There are loads of other activities available - football , martial arts etc etc .

Young people who want to do things need only look , and the churches still subsidise many of these things .

 

[Fununcle]

Fununcle, unfortunately people with views like yours would presumably prefer that those with different views did not express them. Thankfully, they too are nothing like in the majority.

Isn't free speech wonderful?

You presume wrong I'm afraid, free speech is wonderful and within reason I fully respect anyones right to give their opinion but I think in the rather politically charged times we are in, for anyone to believe the hard right are suffering in silence is misguided.

 

[SmartAmg]

Is there 2 videos knocking about? One showing totally the driver's fault and the other showing totally the cyclist fault, because the one I've seen it's totally, without question, absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt the idiot on the bikes fault and his mate trying to pull the Mercedes emblem of the bonnet, just about says it all!

 

[219]

You presume wrong I'm afraid, free speech is wonderful and within reason I fully respect anyones right to give their opinion but I think in the rather politically charged times we are in, for anyone to believe the hard right are suffering in silence is misguided.

Unfortunately Britain has always swung one way or the other around the centre line , and for a while now has hung towards the middle right . Thankfully , here in Scotland we have tended to lean more left of centre , with better balanced views .

 

[Bellow]

I’d change the culture and give all P7 kids their ID number for life when they do their cycling proficiency.

It isn’t a big ask , people accept motorised vehicles being identified, no reason cycles shouldn’t be the same .

But identify the riders , not the bikes .

Good cyclists can use their identity to disassociate from the bad .

It will come .

It wont.
Firstly, the motorised vehicle argument. The vehicle can be identified but the driver still has a right not to identify himself even though a punishment for that will be applied. The driver can distance themself from the alleged offence. Proposing that a cyclist - the person - is directly identifiable is incompatible with the motorist's rights.

Secondly, car number plates are cloned. Cyclist vests bearing numbers will just be ripped from the backs of the law abiding - jeopardising their safety. How many vests are required? One to fit just me, another to fit around a rucksack. Will it need to be illuminated at night? How harsh is the punishment for the number being temporarily obscured by say, a scarf or hood? Will implementation of this system be as bureaucratic and costly as the stupid permits for air weapons (again, legislation for a handful of offences) - or more so? Really it is so cumbersome as to be unworkable. The one instance where actual beat coppers would make a difference and they're nowhere to be seen.

Thirdly, the very basic right of privacy, that is not ever having to disclose one's identity without good reason is at stake here. This is slippery slope when we relinquish this. The freedom to be without being questioned is fundamental. The first question of 'who are you?' blows it apart. A car reg# does not identify anyone. A cyclist forced to bear a number is identifiable - and to many who have no right to know. If we go down this route, why not have everyone in a vest bearing a number just in case they commit a felony? Everywhere - in the street, at the cinema, on the golf course, at the swimming baths.... Microchips then...
(I'm not religious but is there not a chapter where Jesus refuses to identify himself - and states reasons for that?)

Cycling is a privilege , like driving .

And riding a horse on the road? What's the plan for them?

Cycling is a privilege , like driving .

Actually, no. It is but one step up from walking so not a privilege but a basic human right.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Unfortunately Britain has always swung one way or the other around the centre line , and for a while now has hung towards the middle right . Thankfully , here in Scotland we have tended to lean more left of centre , with better balanced views .

More than golden.

 

[C36fan]

I'd just run the little cnt over full stop ...

 

[E55BOF]

You presume wrong I'm afraid, free speech is wonderful and within reason I fully respect anyones right to give their opinion but I think in the rather politically charged times we are in, for anyone to believe the hard right are suffering in silence is misguided.

You miss my point. What you actually said was "...unfortunately people with views like yours are not silent...". I'm not sure I understand your point. You would prefer them silent, then? You're entitled to your views, of course, and to express them, but fortunately, we all enjoy the right of free speech. Why, exactly, other than that you don't agree with them, do you think that they should be silent?

 

[Bellow]

I'd just run the little cnt over full stop ...

Funny thing is, you'd be cheered on for that. Then they'd cheer you being deported once you've served your time. Funny old country.

 

[Fununcle]

You miss my point. What you actually said was "...unfortunately people with views like yours are not silent...". I'm not sure I understand your point. You would prefer them silent, then? You're entitled to your views, of course, and to express them, but fortunately, we all enjoy the right of free speech. Why, exactly, other than that you don't agree with them, do you think that they should be silent?

Just had enough of alt right tw*ts.

 

[C36fan]

Funny thing is, you'd be cheered on for that. Then they'd cheer you being deported once you've served your time. Funny old country.
what do u mean?
I is ingrish

 

[E55BOF]

Going back through the thread, I'm struck by how well it illustrates that often, the law as it is nowadays gets in the way of justice. What happened to common sense? I can see the rationale behind (massive simplifications coming up...) both the 'lock 'em up' and the 'it's not really their fault' points of view, but if you just took the stupid boys' bikes away, they wouldn't be able to do what they do. Legally, of course, it's not nearly that easy.

Anybody remember the 'man on the Clapham omnibus' test of reasonableness? I wonder what he, now spinning in his grave, would want done about this sort of low-level, but very detrimental to people's quality of life, offending? I have a sneaking suspicion that first and foremost, he would just want them stopped from doing it; anything else would come a distant second.

 

[E55BOF]

Just had enough of alt right tw*ts.

Some might think you a right tw*t, have had enough of you, and prefer you to be silent. Isn't free speech wonderful...

 

[219]

It wont.
Firstly, the motorised vehicle argument. The vehicle can be identified but the driver still has a right not to identify himself even though a punishment for that will be applied. The driver can distance themself from the alleged offence. Proposing that a cyclist - the person - is directly identifiable is incompatible with the motorist's rights.

Secondly, car number plates are cloned. Cyclist vests bearing numbers will just be ripped from the backs of the law abiding - jeopardising their safety. How many vests are required? One to fit just me, another to fit around a rucksack. Will it need to be illuminated at night? How harsh is the punishment for the number being temporarily obscured by say, a scarf or hood? Will implementation of this system be as bureaucratic and costly as the stupid permits for air weapons (again, legislation for a handful of offences) - or more so? Really it is so cumbersome as to be unworkable. The one instance where actual beat coppers would make a difference and they're nowhere to be seen.

Thirdly, the very basic right of privacy, that is not ever having to disclose one's identity without good reason is at stake here. This is slippery slope when we relinquish this. The freedom to be without being questioned is fundamental. The first question of 'who are you?' blows it apart. A car reg# does not identify anyone. A cyclist forced to bear a number is identifiable - and to many who have no right to know. If we go down this route, why not have everyone in a vest bearing a number just in case they commit a felony? Everywhere - in the street, at the cinema, on the golf course, at the swimming baths.... Microchips then...
(I'm not religious but is there not a chapter where Jesus refuses to identify himself - and states reasons for that?)







And riding a horse on the road? What's the plan for them?



Actually, no. It is but one step up from walking so not a privilege but a basic human right.

If you prefer the more cumbersome method of identifying bikes , carry on - simpler to just identify riders ; can work for equestrians too .

There is a need for it , and it will come , because incidents such as the one portrayed in this video are becoming increasingly common ; thank those who abuse the privilege of cycling for making this necessary.

If everyone behaved , there would be no need for identification, but they don’t so there is .