Yoofs

[219]

No going to involve myself too much in this thread, but I will just say this:

The kids on the bikes are idiots and set out to do nothing but harass road users.
They know what they’re doing and should not get any sympathy for any incidents that are ultimately caused by themselves.

We can argue all day long about who we feel is in the wrong based on the video footage, but the simple fact is, it would never have happened if the cyclist wasn’t be a ****.

Drivers have to act responsibly on the roads.
And so should cyclists.
No sympathy from me, mr “yo, yo, yo, oh my daaaays bruv”

Prats.

And to that last paragraph - drivers have to behave responsibly because they have numbers displayed on their vehicles which allow them to be traced and held responsible.

Persons on bikes get away with so much because they can’t easily be identified .

I have said for many years that roadgoing persons on bikes should be required to display a number , most easily displayed across the back of a hi-viz vest , which would allow them to be traced and held accountable for behaviour such as this , running red lights , and so much more .

 

[c63chris]

And to that last paragraph - drivers have to behave responsibly because they have numbers displayed on their vehicles which allow them to be traced and held responsible.

Persons on bikes get away with so much because they can’t easily be identified .

I have said for many years that roadgoing persons on bikes should be required to display a number , most easily displayed across the back of a hi-viz vest , which would allow them to be traced and held accountable for behaviour such as this , running red lights , and so much more .

Yes because that really works with motorbikes and moped crime is non existent as a result

 

[E55BOF]

Yes because that really works with motorbikes and moped crime is non existent as a result

I think you're confusing enforcement, which is dependent on resources to investigate possible offences, and awareness of a possible offence. When some serious offence has occurred, it gets priority.

For an example, look no further than that poor PC killed near Ufton Nervet; unless the culprits are caught in the act and arrested on the spot, police generally take little action over anything minor involving the travelling scummunity because of the difficulty of pinning anything down - nobody saw anything, nobody heard anything, nobody knows anybody but they're definitely not here - but with a death occurring, they were down on it like a ton of bricks.

 

[c63chris]

I think you're confusing enforcement, which is dependent on resources to investigate possible offences, and awareness of a possible offence. When some serious offence has occurred, it gets priority.

For an example, look no further than that poor PC killed near Ufton Nervet; unless the culprits are caught in the act and arrested on the spot, police generally take little action over anything minor involving the travelling scummunity because of the difficulty of pinning anything down - nobody saw anything, nobody heard anything, nobody knows anybody but they're definitely not here - but with a death occurring, they were down on it like a ton of bricks.

No think you’re missing my point completely. Whenever the subject of “cyclists” is discussed. At some point someone will say “if only they paid tax and had identification like we have to”. It’s a fallacy to suggest that identification is any means of deterrent. If the people in this video were worried about being identified they wouldn’t have put it on YouTube would they! Cars get raced, ragged, driven like a hooligan because people want to behave like that not because they are worried about being identified. Unless and until we deal with the causes of anti social behaviour it won’t be reduced. We have more people in jail than most other western nations yet time and time again we get the shout “lock them up”. Deal with the cause if you really want a better society.

 

[m80]

No think you’re missing my point completely. Whenever the subject of “cyclists” is discussed. At some point someone will say “if only they paid tax and had identification like we have to”. It’s a fallacy to suggest that identification is any means of deterrent. If the people in this video were worried about being identified they wouldn’t have put it on YouTube would they! Cars get raced, ragged, driven like a hooligan because people want to behave like that not because they are worried about being identified. Unless and until we deal with the causes of anti social behaviour it won’t be reduced. We have more people in jail than most other western nations yet time and time again we get the shout “lock them up”. Deal with the cause if you really want a better society.

You have valid points, but what are the causes?

 

[219]

Yes because that really works with motorbikes and moped crime is non existent as a result

It CAN work with motorcycles, for example if average speed cameras were turned round to read rear number plates instead of front ones , they wouldn’t roar up the A9 with impunity .

What you’re saying is that numberplates are a deterrent to bank robbers using stolen cars , but they ARE a deterrent to ordinary people speeding , taking petrol without paying , and bad driving in general.

The videographer in question here should be traced through his social media and dealt with , but to a degree this sort of content could be policed by the service providers in the same way that indecent material is .

 

[219]

No think you’re missing my point completely. Whenever the subject of “cyclists” is discussed. At some point someone will say “if only they paid tax and had identification like we have to”. It’s a fallacy to suggest that identification is any means of deterrent. If the people in this video were worried about being identified they wouldn’t have put it on YouTube would they! Cars get raced, ragged, driven like a hooligan because people want to behave like that not because they are worried about being identified. Unless and until we deal with the causes of anti social behaviour it won’t be reduced. We have more people in jail than most other western nations yet time and time again we get the shout “lock them up”. Deal with the cause if you really want a better society.

Identification WOULD be a deterrent if the authorities decided to DO something about it ; and it WOULD stop running red lights as well as this sort of behaviour.

Taking his bike down to the fire station and chopping it up would cramp his style .

 

[Bellow]

You have valid points, but what are the causes?

Best way to get an answer to that would be to re-open all the cash starved now shut down youth clubs and ask there why the kids are behaving as they are. That this 'look at me' culture is all they have known but didn't create may feature.

Darwinism. I wonder if Darwin intended for his theory to used so lazily to dismiss problems created by those keenest to invoke it, or would he argue for a society that nurtures its young - protecting it from itself when necessary - such that it grows to be mature and responsible citizens?

Get what you pay for. Vote for lower taxes and when police (for it is their job to stop these types of behaviours) numbers are cut, youth clubs closed, real job opportunities are denied, pending housing costs are astronomical, and the legacy of the preferred party is to dismiss any concept of 'society' - then this is what you get. Compound it by backing a leader who thinks more jails are the answer to everything (he doesn't really think that, he just thinks you (and I) think that), then expect more of the same. Because obviously. any other political party elected would only 'wreck this country'.

 

[c63chris]

Identification WOULD be a deterrent if the authorities decided to DO something about it ; and it WOULD stop running red lights as well as this sort of behaviour.

Taking his bike down to the fire station and chopping it up would cramp his style .

Not sure if you really believe this or not? There has been an exponential rise in moped crime in London. Identification is not a deterrent as false plates or a stolen bike used. In your example cutting up a bike, is the one in the video his, misses my point. Ask yourself why they are doing this. It’s not because there is a threat of being caught or not. Laws work because society chooses to follow the law not because it’s enforced by petty actions like you suggest. Go back in history. One convict was sent to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread. The consequence fear outweighing the crime yet it was still committed. As I said unless and until we address the causes of this sort of behaviour it won’t get any better

 

[c63chris]

You have valid points, but what are the causes?

I suspect that over a decade of cutting back on public spending that used to provide support and activities for our youth will not have helped. I think historically there has been a link between prosperity and crime as well. What really saddens me is it seems no effort is being made to understand why people are behaving like they are

 

[del320]

I blame the parents...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I blame the parents...

I blame the grandparents.

 

[Bellow]

I blame the parents...

Plural? Not always a given. Absent fathers need to step up. If they are absent because they are doing jail time for some petty offence that harms no one else - we all need to step up.

 

[m80]

I blame the grandparents.

I blame the kids,
theirs, in the future they will be very naughty.

 

[E55BOF]

Doomed, doomed, I tell ye; we're aaall doooooomed...

In fact, they'll grow out of it, or those that survive will, and we all did silly things when we were their age, because it never occurred to us that we weren't invulnerable - until something happened that woke us up.

 

[E55BOF]

Plural? Not always a given. Absent fathers need to step up. If they are absent because they are doing jail time for some petty offence that harms no one else - we all need to step up.

I think most of them are absent by choice, not because they're in jail. I don't have a solution, but I don't regard expecting society, or the State, or whoever, to 'step up' in their place as a viable solution, and I certainly don't support raising my taxes to pay for it.

 

[219]

Not sure if you really believe this or not? There has been an exponential rise in moped crime in London. Identification is not a deterrent as false plates or a stolen bike used. In your example cutting up a bike, is the one in the video his, misses my point. Ask yourself why they are doing this. It’s not because there is a threat of being caught or not. Laws work because society chooses to follow the law not because it’s enforced by petty actions like you suggest. Go back in history. One convict was sent to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread. The consequence fear outweighing the crime yet it was still committed. As I said unless and until we address the causes of this sort of behaviour it won’t get any better

Not sure which planet you’re living on ?

Of course identification is key . Without that you have complete anarchy. Of course it works , speeding tickets and so many other offences dealt with daily , stolen cars identified and stopped , petrol thieves apprehended, untaxed , unMOTd , uninsured vehicles identified and stopped , vehicles with markers on identified and stopped . Tried , tested and proven : IT WORKS.

Bicycles, no , but the marker is on the person , not the bike ; identify the rider , not the bike . If caught not wearing a vest , bike is taken and destroyed , again and again and again , relentlessly, they will soon stop . Caught 3 times : jail - even 48 hours or a week in jail will make them think , and they’re young and fit , make them dig old people’s gardens , fill in potholes , repair dams , pick up dog sh!t , whatever , if they repeat offend - escalate sentences . Catch them , wear them down . If they’re from London ship them to other end of country, if they’re claimants , stop their benefits - that may sound harsh but if they choose crime they choose the consequences. They are wasters - why should we taxpayers subsidise them ? Except for disability, all claimants should do community work in return for their benefits .

If moped crime is an issue down there , get more motorcycle police and make a culture of stopping ALL mopeds until it is no longer the crime of choice .

You feel it’s choice ? Drink driving was made socially unacceptable; do the same with bicycle hooners : show them damaging peoples property, show them hurting innocent pedestrians , demonise them in the pubic eyes , even more than already .

Too many people take the side of these wrongdoers ; it’s time the silent majority fought back .

 

[219]

I suspect that over a decade of cutting back on public spending that used to provide support and activities for our youth will not have helped. I think historically there has been a link between prosperity and crime as well. What really saddens me is it seems no effort is being made to understand why people are behaving like they are

A decade ? Longer than that I think .
Young people now don’t want to do activities, they just want to play X box .

Maybe when they offend , gadgets should be removed.

 

[Bellow]

Not sure which planet you’re living on ?

Of course identification is key . Without that you have complete anarchy. Of course it works , speeding tickets and so many other offences dealt with daily , stolen cars identified and stopped , petrol thieves apprehended, untaxed , unMOTd , uninsured vehicles identified and stopped , vehicles with markers on identified and stopped . Tried , tested and proven : IT WORKS.

Bicycles, no , but the marker is on the person , not the bike ; identify the rider , not the bike . If caught not wearing a vest , bike is taken and destroyed; relentlessly, they will soon stop . Caught 3 times : jail - even 48 hours or a week in jail will make them think , and they’re young and fit , make them dig old people’s gardens , fill in potholes , repair dams , pick up dog sh!t , whatever . Catch them , wear them down . If they’re from London ship them to other end of country, if they’re claimants , stop their benefits - that may sound harsh but if they choose crime they choose the consequences.

Too many people take the side of these wrongdoers ; it’s time the silent majority fought back .

Applying methods of ID to all cyclists for a minority of cyclists who exhibit anti social behaviour is disproportionate and will deter the uptake of cycling at a time when we need to be considering taking to bikes and driving less. (In the context as presented the bureaucratic and financial hurdles will make it so). The next step in inviolate identification is us all microchipped like dogs. I'd watch cyclists risk running red lights before submitting to that.

 

[219]

Applying methods of ID to all cyclists for a minority of cyclists who exhibit anti social behaviour is disproportionate and will deter the uptake of cycling at a time when we need to be considering taking to bikes and driving less. (In the context as presented the bureaucratic and financial hurdles will make it so). The next step in inviolate identification is us all microchipped like dogs. I'd watch cyclists risk running red lights before submitting to that.

I’d change the culture and give all P7 kids their ID number for life when they do their cycling proficiency.

It isn’t a big ask , people accept motorised vehicles being identified, no reason cycles shouldn’t be the same .

But identify the riders , not the bikes .

Good cyclists can use their identity to disassociate from the bad .

It will come .

Cycling is a privilege , like driving .