190 advice or forum

[MichaelMB]

Hi, I am seriously considering buying a 190 that is, or soon will be Historic. Am retired, it would be a daily driver for local rural journeys mainly. The 190 specific forums seems to have died off ( other than the Cosworth only one) unless anyone knows of any?
Couple of questions to guide my search for an early auto saloon (UK) with Aircon. Is there a particularly good or bad engine type to go for? I no longer much care about rapid acceleration, I now prefer economy and comfort! Is there much difference in MPG between the engines? Does the diesel have the dreaded DPF? (not suited to my local driving).
Thanks for any advice!

 

[190]

I ran a 190e for 21 years until it was 26 years old. Mechanically it was sound, the real problem is rust. Look for structural rust at the rear subframe mounts and the jacking points. Front wings are easy to replace if you can get them, I did both fronts. Rear wings obviously much more difficult.

Inside look at the door cards where the vinyl pulls away at the top and at the arm rests.

Other than the diesel the 190e is the most economical and probably less troublesome than the 190 carb model which is also down on power.

 

[Bellow]

I've not owned a 190 but did have a W123 with the same engine (more or less) as in 190s and saw a friends 190 up close for years on end. Along with what I've gleaned from this forum it seems to me that all the petrol four cylinder engines are prone to head gasket failure - but remedial is relatively easy. My W123 was carbed and reliable. I think the 190 carbed engine was with additional electronic control of some functions and less reliable than the straight carbs or later injected models. The injected models use Bosch's KE Jetronic system. Expertise and parts for this system seem to be waning. The smaller 1.8l appear to be more prone than the 2.0l units to head gasket failure. The six cylinder is I think also susceptible to head gasket failure but it'd be my choice if I was looking to buy a 190. I've heard the steering column had to be moved to allow installation of the six and that it intrudes on the driving position - a concern for some. A reasonable compromise - but it would involve a significant amount of DIY is to retro-fit a 2.3 engine from a W123 - as Pontoneer did. Overall though, the petrol engines are tough - head gasket failure excepted.
That's my knowledge of the petrols - a mix of the known and anecdotal. I'll leave it to others to comment on the diesels - though it's fair I think to say that the petrols are more likely to have automatic transmissions, less so the diesels. So factor transmission preference into your thinking too.

 

[MichaelMB]

I ran a 190e for 21 years until it was 26 years old. Mechanically it was sound, the real problem is rust. Look for structural rust at the rear subframe mounts and the jacking points. Front wings are easy to replace if you can get them, I did both fronts. Rear wings obviously much more difficult.

Inside look at the door cards where the vinyl pulls away at the top and at the arm rests.

Other than the diesel the 190e is the most economical and probably less troublesome than the 190 carb model which is also down on power.

Thanks, good advice. Were that available with Aircon but without sunroof do you know? Sunroofs have been more trouble than not to me over the years!

 

[MichaelMB]

I've not owned a 190 but did have a W123 with the same engine (more or less) as in 190s and saw a friends 190 up close for years on end. Along with what I've gleaned from this forum it seems to me that all the petrol four cylinder engines are prone to head gasket failure - but remedial is relatively easy. My W123 was carbed and reliable. I think the 190 carbed engine was with additional electronic control of some functions and less reliable than the straight carbs or later injected models. The injected models use Bosch's KE Jetronic system. Expertise and parts for this system seem to be waning. The smaller 1.8l appear to be more prone than the 2.0l units to head gasket failure. The six cylinder is I think also susceptible to head gasket failure but it'd be my choice if I was looking to buy a 190. I've heard the steering column had to be moved to allow installation of the six and that it intrudes on the driving position - a concern for some. A reasonable compromise - but it would involve a significant amount of DIY is to retro-fit a 2.3 engine from a W123 - as Pontoneer did. Overall though, the petrol engines are tough - head gasket failure excepted.
That's my knowledge of the petrols - a mix of the known and anecdotal. I'll leave it to others to comment on the diesels - though it's fair I think to say that the petrols are more likely to have automatic transmissions, less so the diesels. So factor transmission preference into your thinking too.

Thanks Bellow, I do prefer auto, and am 6ft so may not like reduced room from the 6 cylinder. Feel that fuel injection is probably well worth having too

 

[ChipChop]

Hi, I am seriously considering buying a 190 that is, or soon will be Historic. Am retired, it would be a daily driver for local rural journeys mainly. The 190 specific forums seems to have died off ( other than the Cosworth only one) unless anyone knows of any?
Couple of questions to guide my search for an early auto saloon (UK) with Aircon. Is there a particularly good or bad engine type to go for? I no longer much care about rapid acceleration, I now prefer economy and comfort! Is there much difference in MPG between the engines? Does the diesel have the dreaded DPF? (not suited to my local driving).
Thanks for any advice!

No dpf's on the 4 and 5 cylinder diesels fitted to w201's. No electronics either. Fully mechanical injection thanks to a Bosch inline pump. The diesels they will even carry on running if you remove the battery after start up.
Mpg wise you will get high 40's mpg on a run in a diesel w201. Very refined diesel engines btw. Known back in the day as the whispering diesel. The 5 cylinder om602 diesel engine is a gem and makes for a relaxing driving experience. Good motorway cars too thanks to the 190d 2.5 manual gearbox having a high for the time 5th gear (25mph per 1000rpm). Autos a bit lower geared. Period review below.

Mercedes Benz 190D 2.5 Diesel Road Test 1986

Motor magazine brief road test scan from 23rd August 1986. C676 OVV: Tax Status: Unlicensed Expiry Date: 01/09/2004 Registration Date: 01/04/1986

www.flickr.com

PS They also run on bio fuels like vegetable oil so are "carbon neutral" if that is of interest.

 

[MichaelMB]

No dpf's on the 4 and 5 cylinder diesels fitted to w201's. No electronics either. Fully mechanical injection thanks to a Bosch inline pump. The diesels they will even carry on running if you remove the battery after start up.
Mpg wise you will get high 40's mpg on a run in a diesel w201. Very refined diesel engines btw. Known back in the day as the whispering diesel. The 5 cylinder om602 diesel engine is a gem and makes for a relaxing driving experience. Good motorway cars too thanks to the 190d 2.5 manual gearbox having a high for the time 5th gear (25mph per 1000rpm). Autos a bit lower geared. Period review below.

Mercedes Benz 190D 2.5 Diesel Road Test 1986

Motor magazine brief road test scan from 23rd August 1986. C676 OVV: Tax Status: Unlicensed Expiry Date: 01/09/2004 Registration Date: 01/04/1986

www.flickr.com

PS They also run on bio fuels like vegetable oil so are "carbon neutral" if that is of interest.

Very useful, helpful info, thanks ChipChop....by any chance are you using ex chip shop oil

 

[ChipChop]

Very useful, helpful info, thanks ChipChop....by any chance are you using ex chip shop oil

In the summer months it has been known

 

[190]

Thanks, good advice. Were that available with Aircon but without sunroof do you know? Sunroofs have been more trouble than not to me over the years!

Mine was a 190e auto with some extras including ABS but it didn't have aircon and I don't recall seeing one with aircon when I was looking so it may not be too common.

The 190e injection system is Bosch Ke and up to 1990 there was no cat so it was an open loop system. While based on the earlier purely mechanical Bosch K, the KE had some electronics added in the form of an ECU which managed cold starting and fine tuned the mixture. 1990 onwards had a cat and closed loop control but still much the same Bosch Ke system. Now the ECU managed the closed loop control.

 

[MichaelMB]

Mine was a 190e auto with some extras including ABS but it didn't have aircon and I don't recall seeing one with aircon when I was looking so it may not be too common.

The 190e injection system is Bosch Ke and up to 1990 there was no cat so it was an open loop system. While based on the earlier purely mechanical Bosch K, the KE had some electronics added in the form of an ECU which managed cold starting and fine tuned the mixture. 1990 onwards had a cat and closed loop control but still much the same Bosch Ke system. Now the ECU managed the closed loop control.

Thanks, sounds good to have the ECU, perhaps less so the cat. Luckily many that I am browsing so have Aircon, though I have not yet worked out how to recognise it from internal photos. Am getting enthusiastic look like well made cars

 

[neilrr]

Michael,

"( other than the Cosworth only one)"

Got a link?

 

[MichaelMB]

Michael,

"( other than the Cosworth only one)"

Got a link?

Log in to Facebook

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[MichaelMB]

Log in to Facebook

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If link doesn't work, the Facebook group is called Mercedes 109e 2.3-16 Cosworth UK

 

[ChipChop]

Thanks, sounds good to have the ECU, perhaps less so the cat. Luckily many that I am browsing so have Aircon, though I have not yet worked out how to recognise it from internal photos. Am getting enthusiastic look like well made cars

W201 AC controls are an additional slider to the right of the fan control slider. Just above the 3 round heater controls. Can you even get the gas for old ac systems now though?

 

[MichaelMB]

W201 AC controls are an additional slider to the right of the fan control slider. Just above the 3 round heater controls. Can you even get the gas for old ac systems now though?

I think, from a 93 Saab I once had,there is a gas but it's less efficient. But if you have an old a/c in a car, vital parts can be changed far cheaper than trying to install a system from scratch. Think it's a case of a new compressor and evaporator

 

[GP801]

Our son had a very early 124 with AC running on R12 refrigerant. It was subsequently converted to R134-a. As far as I can remember no parts were replaced but it did require flushing and different lubricants to be inserted.

 

[Pontoneer]

Hi, I am seriously considering buying a 190 that is, or soon will be Historic. Am retired, it would be a daily driver for local rural journeys mainly. The 190 specific forums seems to have died off ( other than the Cosworth only one) unless anyone knows of any?
Couple of questions to guide my search for an early auto saloon (UK) with Aircon. Is there a particularly good or bad engine type to go for? I no longer much care about rapid acceleration, I now prefer economy and comfort! Is there much difference in MPG between the engines? Does the diesel have the dreaded DPF? (not suited to my local driving).
Thanks for any advice!

The best 190 ( W201 ) forum is Mercedes-190.co.uk

I am still a member there , although it is not as busy as it used to be .

My dad had a 190 , which he bought brand new , but that was a 1964 W110 Fintail 190 ; I also briefly had a 1956 W121 190 , but just as a spares car for my W105 219 .

Amongst other M-B models I had an early ( B-reg ) 190E , which was a great car , then I got a 190E 2.6 , which was faster , smoother , but thirstier . My most recent one was a 190E LE , which came with the 1.8L engine , which turned out to have cylinder head gasket problems . I was advised , by a local specialist , against spending money repairing it as this is apparently a common problem with the 1.8L version of the engine , so instead bought a known good 2.3L engine from a member of this forum , at the same time installing a diff from a 190E 2.6 , associated propshaft and driveshafts , and brakes as per factory spec for the 190E 2.3 ( which was never sold in this country , but reputed to be the most economical 190 ( with a figure of 45 mpg ) . My modified car certainly accelerated with alacrity , impressed everyone I took out in it ( it 'felt' faster than the 2.6 ) and I loved it ; however a friend pestered me indefinitely until I eventually sold him it .

The arrival of my new son at the same time mandated a larger car , so it was replaced with a 500SEL , with which I enjoyed five wonderful years .

You won't find many UK spec W201 cars with aircon ; the 2 litre 190E , or 2.3L versions , the latter mostly sold in Europe , never officially sold in the UK , are the most economical petrol ( most refined ) models . You would have to decide if you can put up with the Diesel drone ; they can be cheaper to run but are not as refined - drive both to decide for yourself . When you can get 45 mpg from a petrol car , why fret about a few extra mpg if you're not doing interplanetary mileages ?

A few pics of my LE

 

[Pontoneer]

And the engine transplant

 

[MichaelMB]

The best 190 ( W201 ) forum is Mercedes-190.co.uk

I am still a member there , although it is not as busy as it used to be .

My dad had a 190 , which he bought brand new , but that was a 1964 W110 Fintail 190 ; I also briefly had a 1956 W121 190 , but just as a spares car for my W105 219 .

Amongst other M-B models I had an early ( B-reg ) 190E , which was a great car , then I got a 190E 2.6 , which was faster , smoother , but thirstier . My most recent one was a 190E LE , which came with the 1.8L engine , which turned out to have cylinder head gasket problems . I was advised , by a local specialist , against spending money repairing it as this is apparently a common problem with the 1.8L version of the engine , so instead bought a known good 2.3L engine from a member of this forum , at the same time installing a diff from a 190E 2.6 , associated propshaft and driveshafts , and brakes as per factory spec for the 190E 2.3 ( which was never sold in this country , but reputed to be the most economical 190 ( with a figure of 45 mpg ) . My modified car certainly accelerated with alacrity , impressed everyone I took out in it ( it 'felt' faster than the 2.6 ) and I loved it ; however a friend pestered me indefinitely until I eventually sold him it .

The arrival of my new son at the same time mandated a larger car , so it was replaced with a 500SEL , with which I enjoyed five wonderful years .

You won't find many UK spec W201 cars with aircon ; the 2 litre 190E , or 2.3L versions , the latter mostly sold in Europe , never officially sold in the UK , are the most economical petrol ( most refined ) models . You would have to decide if you can put up with the Diesel drone ; they can be cheaper to run but are not as refined - drive both to decide for yourself . When you can get 45 mpg from a petrol car , why fret about a few extra mpg if you're not doing interplanetary mileages ?

A few pics of my LEView attachment 162208View attachment 162209View attachment 162210View attachment 162211View attachment 162212View attachment 162213View attachment 162214

Great advice there, thanks. Yours looks a good colour combination, far better to my eyes than red interior to acred car. The forum you mentioned requires joining Tapatalk, which I've heard is very invasive, have you found it ok? Does that forum include cars for sale?

 

[Pontoneer]

I wasn't so happy about Tapatalk either , but haven't noticed any issues to be fair .

There is both a cars for sale and a parts for sale area on the forum .

it isn't as busy as it once was , but there remains a hard core of loyal members , main advantage is that there is knowledge on that forum you won't find easily anywhere else .

Only other really good source of 190 knowledge is Stefano Mazzoni ( Stef ) , of Merparts Port Glasgow , who was/is 190 model captain of the official club . Here is their link .

Merparts Ltd Independent Mercedes Benz Specialist

Independent Mercedes Benz and SMART Specialist located in Port Glasgow, Scotland

www.merparts.com