190e engine conversion experts please!

[poormansporsche]

You should have not let me buy your half !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[carat 3.6]

Indeed, c.265Bhp/ton plus loads of torque. I think too, the beauty about the power of the V8's in a light car like the W201 is that there's far less need to worry about the overall cars weight.

It the low down torque that's the winner, let's you pull a higher diff ratio as a bonus.

As a good example I've got an e30 here which weighs roughly the same as a w201, which I have shoe horned an m60 v8 and 6 speed manual into. My working out put's it at 255bhp per ton, with a wall of torque.

Now as much as the purists argue that their m3 4cyl handles better than my v8 and it has a racing pedigree blah blah ect ect, the way they get left behind is embarrassing!

I'm now wondering just how far back in the 190e engine bay I could get the m113 to sit. As it's a race car the heater matrix goes in the bin anyway, so it should be possible to get the entire engine behind the front axle line.

 

[stwat]

A member of the 190 forum, who is also a member here, I believe, fitted a C36 engine to a 190 chassis. The car is effing quick by all accounts. He takes it to the DTM revival show at the Nürburgring race track and has ruffled a few feathers over the years. A bit of a giant killer by all accounts.
Individual throttle bodies and stand alone management were on the cards to increase BHP but sadly all has gone quiet on that front.

 

[gunning]

A member of the 190 forum, who is also a member here, I believe, fitted a C36 engine to a 190 chassis. The car is effing quick by all accounts. He takes it to the DTM revival show at the Nürburgring race track and has ruffled a few feathers over the years. A bit of a giant killer by all accounts. Individual throttle bodies and stand alone management were on the cards to increase BHP but sadly all has gone quiet on that front.

Interesting but it wouldn't be a v8 :/ hmmm what gearbox does he run with it?

 

[gunning]

So I'm a bit confused on the whole ecu issue, like I say I'm no mechanic and only have a basic understanding.

Could somebody explain to me roughly what ecu system I have to run for such engines such as an 36 amg or the 55 AMG lump.

What is a stand alone ecu or another type of I guess custom ecu?

 

[John Jones Jr]

So I'm a bit confused on the whole ecu issue, like I say I'm no mechanic and only have a basic understanding.

Could somebody explain to me roughly what ecu system I have to run for such engines such as an 36 amg or the 55 AMG lump.

What is a stand alone ecu or another type of I guess custom ecu?

Carat would explain this better than me. Here's my take on using a Standalone ECU against the OE ECU.

One of the basic issues with doing a transplant would be wiring of the OE ECU to another car, some of those ECU's have a built in function to communicate with an auto gearboxes TCU, the M113 only came with an auto as a typical example. Then there's possible issues with built in immobilisers, the OE ECU may require a feed from the electronic ignition system as it's coded to the chassis number of the vehicle it came from. And I'm sure there's other potential issues, maybe with the OE throttle body wiring and it's fly-by wire operation while looking for a feed from a wheel sensor etc, etc. Now I'm sure somebody experienced could overcome all those issues and any others that present themselves using the OE ECU in another vehicle but at the end of the day your still left with factory ECU and it's settings and the potential of wiring issues.

Now, obviously fitting a Standalone system (plenty to choose from like the popular Emerald or Megasquirt systems etc) there's no concerns like the ones mentioned above with the OE ECU. But just as important and usually the main reason for fitting Standalone is that it's totally tuneable to the engine of your choice for the car of your choice and this allows for maximising engine performance while carrying out modifications, typically turbocharging a non turbo engine or fitting an uprated turbo and associated parts like injectors, intercooler etc. to an engine that's already turbocharged.

In your case you'll have a different exhaust system & routing in the W201 compared to a W210. Possibly different exhaust manifolds or modified ones. To take advantage or to compensate for that the Standalone ECU can be tuned to maximise engine efficiency. If, at a later date you decided to say S/charge the engine the Standalone system will accommodate that with session ot reprogramming it as it's very versatile. It's also well known that just replacing the OE ECU with a Standalone system without any modifications to even a normally aspirated engine it's possible to see another 10+% power gain and even improved economy. And another advantage of Standalone is that it's transferable to another engine, even one with a different cylinder count if the need arises.

There you go that's my laymans take on it anyway.

 

[carat 3.6]

Interesting but it wouldn't be a v8 :/ hmmm what gearbox does he run with it?

Iirc, Jeremy was using the 5 speed manual from the 190 16v.

So I'm a bit confused on the whole ecu issue, like I say I'm no mechanic and only have a basic understanding.

Could somebody explain to me roughly what ecu system I have to run for such engines such as an 36 amg or the 55 AMG lump.

What is a stand alone ecu or another type of I guess custom ecu?

Jhon has done such a good job of explaining it, I have nothing to add.

So for fitting these engines in a 190, the m113, m111 turbo, m104 turbo, all need a stand alone ecu.

The c36 engine can be run on the original ecu in some case's, such as early cars with a 4 speed auto. Later cars are more of a challenge, and you will encounter problems when trying to use a manual gearbox with one.


I'm in the process of fitting a standalone ecu to a modified carlsson c37 at the moment. I would normally use Emerald products but we now have a dealer for "link ecu's" next door to me, so have one of theirs on trial.

 

[mlodypiotr]

I rang the geezer up a month ago who i sold it to and asked if he would sell it back to me and he said he wouldnt sell it even if i offered him twice what he paid for it !!!!!!!!!!!

I was a **** to sell it

Still proud and happy owner...

 

[poormansporsche]

Bugger . Still looking tasty

Hope you are well mate !

 

[mlodypiotr]

Bugger . Still looking tasty

Hope you are well mate !

All good mate, I was wondering if you still have the "Ultra Rare 190E Recaro Sportline "Humpy" Interior 2 Seat Rear"?

 

[poormansporsche]

That one went ages ago I'm afraid

 

[mazza]

That 300 24v would be ideal as a starting point, I could be wrong but I think Mazza has upgraded the suspension now too.

Nope, mazza has been veryyyyy lazy, trial springs are fitted but been busy with crap. planning to get back into it very soon.

 

[mazza]

Woah some great info there guys! I really appreciate it and definitely what I need! My first step needs to be to actually buy myself a 2.6 then?

I have wondered, If I'm just using essentially the shell... Is it possible to say use an rb25 skyline lump, ecu etc and just essentially swap it all over (I know it'd need fabrication) I'm not the mechanic I am simply the owner with plans. Hence why I may sound a bit thick in terms of how to do it.

The Nissan lump is excellent but will require more work

the inlet/exhaust manifolds are positioned on the opposite sides of the W201 usual layout, so you will need a bit of exhaust pipe work done.

the Toyota lumps have the same layout as the Mercs M103.

Mazza

 

[carat 3.6]

Nope, mazza has been veryyyyy lazy, trial springs are fitted but been busy with crap. planning to get back into it very soon.

Good to hear from you dude, been wondering where you had got to!

 

[mazza]

Good to hear from you dude, been wondering where you had got to!

All good here matey

I'm ready to start messing with the classics again..hehe

chat soon

 

[mazza]

I suppose it comes down to noise and simplicity (m113), or handling and big balls (m111t).

Or be a raving loon and run an om601/4 combo @ 2.5 bar of boost

this is just my opinion

M113...very dirty but still carrying a few extra pounds up front

M111...not going to be cheap to get it set up, manifolds, turbos, coolers, big injectors, etc.

My choice, M112 v6 supercharged, right now you can get 330bhp and over 300lbs of torque for little over 1k delivered and good weight up front.

om601 soooo naughty

mazza

 

[Pezzalee]

Very interesting read thank you guys. I have a w201 1.8 auto I’m looking to put the m111 kompressor engine in her as it seems by ur comments that you won’t have to mod any of the vehicle ie steering rack etc. The question is I’d be keeping the engine stock with a 5 speed Manuel, would I need a standalone system or what would be the best options.. aka cheapest option I guess haha

 

[alabbasi]

Find a 190E 2.6 and drop an M103 3 liter engine. It will fit right in without mods and give you a nice bump in HP. Easiest and cheapest bang per buck.

 

[carat 3.6]

Very interesting read thank you guys. I have a w201 1.8 auto I’m looking to put the m111 kompressor engine in her as it seems by ur comments that you won’t have to mod any of the vehicle ie steering rack etc. The question is I’d be keeping the engine stock with a 5 speed Manuel, would I need a standalone system or what would be the best options.. aka cheapest option I guess haha

The engine and gearbox will drop in without mods, use the mounts from your original engine. You will need an aftermarket ecu to control it all, unless your donor car is a very early model with a metal key.

 

[brucemillar]

The engine and gearbox will drop in without mods, use the mounts from your original engine. You will need an aftermarket ecu to control it all, unless your donor car is a very early model with a metal key.

Simon

Still looking for that tandem pump please. Bruce


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