1990's SL which?? 300 or 500

[230K]

Hi

Thinking of buying an SL early nineties for use as an occasional car, odd weekend and whatever maybe 3000 miles per year. Have looked at an 80000 mile 300SL 1992 with no history in red at £8800. Also 1991 500SL in blue 112K lots of history circa £10K. I want advice on which would be the easier to live with etc, which is likely to give the most bother and whether i should dream of something else instead.

230K

 

[stats007]

To be honest at that age and low annual mileage I think both cars will give you headaches. Early 90s 500s have assorted problems - the M119 engine had three major revisions in its lifespan - early cars suffer from wiring harness disintigration. If you really want one then I'd suggest a 300-24 - though bear in mind a cheap SL isn't ever a cheap SL.

I personally wouldn't pay £13k for this, but it's an example:

300-24

 

[peterchurch]

Forget it. The SL is not a cheap car full stop...

The cheaper the price of the car you buy, the bigger the headache when it goes wrong.

Yes you can abuse them and let them decay but they are never a cheap run around. I dont care what anyone says you cannot run one through an independent garage (I tried!) oil changes, anyone can do, and you might as well do it, as it takes no more than a mornings work... But the serious stuff always needs an MB dealer and its not worth the cost or time
There are better cars out there.

On a good note though they do bring a smile to you face when they work (some times)

 

[stats007]

Peter there are plenty of specialists more than capable of looking after R129 SLs; I and other SL owners I know can vouch for that. SS Motors in Weybridge being one of them. Main Dealers are the ones to avoid!

 

[Fais]

Forget it. The SL is not a cheap car full stop...
....
There are better cars out there.

On a good note though they do bring a smile to you face when they work (some times)

I agree with some points about maintence - but don't agree that there are better cars out there (of similar class - 2 seater with occasional rear seats, reliable, cheap to buy, comfort etc etc)- if there was, i would have traded mine in.

Great car - if you get one that is old but very well looked after (full merc history) and low milage (motorway miles) - then you should be fine. A solid SL will hold it value very well and is less likley to go wrong, whereas high milers have electrical faults and poor history fetch less.

If it is going to be an occasional car - are you after the convertible factor or the fast pace? The 500 is a great car, but maintence (engine/gearbox) is more expensive, so beware. The simpler the car, the cheaper in the long run. Though i would love to have the power of a SL500...

You can expect some maintence problems, electrical one being the most expensive and difficult to diagnose. But you could easily cushion yourself - £2/3k at most if something goes wrong. Keep that buffer, and you'll be fine. They are not nearly as complicated as the new SL (R230). What you save in depreciation, you lose in maintenance - simple.

if you decide to take the plunge on an older model - check every electrical bit. Get an inspection by a specialist.

 

[Fais]

Someone posted this link which has a great writeup on the SL - wish i had seen it when i purchased my SL last year...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/sl/history.htm

 

[peterchurch]

Peter there are plenty of specialists more than capable of looking after R129 SLs; I and other SL owners I know can vouch for that. SS Motors in Weybridge being one of them. Main Dealers are the ones to avoid!

Save that statement till you have had a major problem with your car like the roof or an engine management issue, rather than talking about swapping oil and plugs. Any monkey can do that (even me )

Full MBSH is good to have but it only shows you what didn't go wrong for the previous owners.

As for better cars out there for ocasional use Porsche 911? (no you dont get back seats, but then I would not say you get viable seats in the SL either.)

Better by what definition though is important.

I Actually like driving on motorways with the roof down and before I had my SL I owned a 99 Saab 93SE and an MR2 roadster both cars were leagues better for fast roof down driving. In fact I had the Saabs roof down on a motorway in -3 wearing only a shirt, No probelms at all. The SL continually gave me a frozen left shoulder because none of the design team bothered to look at the cabin airflow, and the silly little wind deflector was a waist of time.

I agree buying new there is not much that is better than an SL but at the £13k stage you can have much newer cars with comparible comfort to the SL that wont land you with bills in the thousands if they go wrong. I agree that it will never be the engine that causes the isssues. (unless its the headgasket on the Inline 6 )

Of course if the only thing you actually want is the three pointed star on your car then only the SL can do that

 

[fuzzer]

Someone posted this link which has a great writeup on the SL - wish i had seen it when i purchased my SL last year...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/sl/history.htm

there is a good half hours reading there

 

[stats007]

Save that statement till you have had a major problem with your car like the roof or an engine management issue, rather than talking about swapping oil and plugs. Any monkey can do that (even me )

Funnily enough friends have had exactly these issues - as well as cat failures, wiring harness replacement, full active suspension rebuild and numerous other major tasks. London and Surrey has a good selection of Mercedes Specialists all fully equipped with Star and Sun diagnostics. The only equipment they don't have to my knowledge is the 4-wheel laser alignment rig. Specialists are generally more helpful in sourcing cheaper OEM parts or reconditioned / 2nd hand if so required.

Maybe you've just had a backstreet garage experience, but you're probably offending a lot of people like MercStar, John Haynes, Steve Redfearn, Stuttgart Garage, SS Motors etc all who come highly recommended from Mercedes owners.

 

[peterchurch]

Funnily enough friends have had exactly these issues - as well as cat failures, wiring harness replacement, full active suspension rebuild and numerous other major tasks. London and Surrey has a good selection of Mercedes Specialists all fully equipped with Star and Sun diagnostics. The only equipment they don't have to my knowledge is the 4-wheel laser alignment rig. Specialists are generally more helpful in sourcing cheaper OEM parts or reconditioned / 2nd hand if so required.

Maybe you've just had a backstreet garage experience, but you're probably offending a lot of people like MercStar, John Haynes, Steve Redfearn, Stuttgart Garage, SS Motors etc all who come highly recommended from Mercedes owners.

Actually the mechanics I had look at mine were both more than capable, and my last chap had 20K worth of MB diag equipment etc They just dont see enough SLs to spot obvious faults. It may be more geographical in that SLs are far more common in the London area, but then thats no help if you no longer live there

The list of common faults described is quite a scary list. I chickened out after only 3ks worth of work. More down to the fact that I ran out of patience rather than cash. (Cats, MAS, Bodywork, gearbox, servicing etc)
My resolution for buying an R129 SL was its Tank proof image
I can't reccomend that others buy the car for the same reasons when its clearly a long dead myth. It makes me cringe when I think of all the mid 90s cars running round just waiting to have their looms die and rust issues and roof problems. Given that SLs tended to be more pampered than the rest of the MB fleet should make them better not worse

By the way do you ever lift your carpets to check for water? I found my leaks when I was removing a nokia car kit water hides well in these cars
I never found the cause of them though.

Given the costs of repairs I couldn not recommend an SL as a Cheap third car.

Although they are nowhere near the same I would suggest that for 13K you could get a BMW,Saab,<Add brand here> that will be much less than 10 years old and will not have the running costs that go with the SL

 

[Shude]

As for better cars out there for ocasional use Porsche 911? (no you dont get back seats, but then I would not say you get viable seats in the SL either.)

911 is a 2+2, which is why it can never be considered a supercar: too practical

 

[peterchurch]

911 is a 2+2, which is why it can never be considered a supercar: too practical

Im not sure what you can put in the back though

 

[stats007]

I specifically bought a later M113 R129 because of the problems with earlier cars - though that's not to say they don't suffer. To date mine has been faultless - the roof sometimes needs manual adjustment but no leaks, nothing. Like I said, for low mileage use - an older £10k R129 will give you some headaches - but there is plenty of support from this and other Forums (I'm on 4 others) as well as some great Specialists who have a passion for the cars. Buy sensibly and you'll be hard pushed to beat an SL for luxury open top motoring.

 

[nickg]

Warning - Peterchurch will seriously damage your enthusiasm for a 129.
He bought a lemon then knackered it by getting a muppet to overhaul his gearbox (which went wrong) and then fiddled about with a dodgy new exhaust or something
He preferred his Renault Megane convertible to the SL.........

I have had a Saab 9-3 conv, a 96 sl320 and a 96 sl60 AMG.
The Saab was a great car, until I got the SL and realised what a real luxury car was all about.

My '96 sl320 was bought from an MB dealer with warranty. It had a leaky head gasket changed as a precaution under warranty (common problem with this engine) and a roof motor replaced under warranty (actually it was the battery that was causing the problem). Would have been pricey for me if I'd had to pay.
My SL60 AMG was the best car I'll ever own and completely reliable for the 13 months I had it (stolen last week).

Spend a bit more, buy a late '90s model with excellent history and no more than 50k miles, and budget for a few hundred quid running costs.
You could get seriously unlucky and end up spending big money on various problems, but these cars ARE built like tanks.
You get what you pay for. Safest is to budget £20K + to buy and run and you will be driving something the equivalent of which you couldn't buy for less than £60K.

Spending £13K on an SL is probably asking for trouble, same as it would be for any car of that age, mileage and provenance. Doesn't mean the SL is/was a bad car.

 

[peterchurch]

Warning - Peterchurch will seriously damage your enthusiasm for a 129.
He bought a lemon then knackered it by getting a muppet to overhaul his gearbox (which went wrong) and then fiddled about with a dodgy new exhaust or something
He preferred his Renault Megane convertible to the SL.........

I have had a Saab 9-3 conv, a 96 sl320 and a 96 sl60 AMG.
The Saab was a great car, until I got the SL and realised what a real luxury car was all about.

My '96 sl320 was bought from an MB dealer with warranty. It had a leaky head gasket changed as a precaution under warranty (common problem with this engine) and a roof motor replaced under warranty (actually it was the battery that was causing the problem). Would have been pricey for me if I'd had to pay.
My SL60 AMG was the best car I'll ever own and completely reliable for the 13 months I had it (stolen last week).

Spend a bit more, buy a late '90s model with excellent history and no more than 50k miles, and budget for a few hundred quid running costs.
You could get seriously unlucky and end up spending big money on various problems, but these cars ARE built like tanks.
You get what you pay for. Safest is to budget £20K + to buy and run and you will be driving something the equivalent of which you couldn't buy for less than £60K.

Spending £13K on an SL is probably asking for trouble, same as it would be for any car of that age, mileage and provenance. Doesn't mean the SL is/was a bad car.

I look forward to hearing about your gearbox woes when the your SL60 finally chews it up...

Oh wait sorry I forgot your car got nicked last week never mind

*EDIT*

As much fun as it is taking the p!ss out of each other it does not really solve the problem.

Nick your right!

I found it very hard to part with the meganne. It had an X factor and every day I jumped in it I left the car with a big grin. (my best car to date)
My Saab 93 was built to order and looked and drove the business (full aero kit and lots of nice toys) again I found It hard to part with that car.
My MR2 was great fun and the _only_ reason I parted with it was the 70K I put on the clock. When most dealers had cars on the forecourt with 16K on them at most, I knew it had to go before it was un saleable. Like the others, it had the X factor that put a grin on your face every time you drove it.

The SL lost the ride quality associated with MBs due to the harder ride. It was plenty fast enough. But it was missing the X factor that made you want to drive it. I let my friend borrow it (He has an FTO) and he came back and said it was a bit of a boat. I don't think its a healthy sign when the majority of the fellow owners you see driving round your area are retired and in their 70s and you are only 32.

I happily handed the keys over for my SL and didn't even think twice about it.
Im looking forward to getting my new Saab in October. Lighter, more fun better ride quality etc

When you talk about owning a real luxury car what quality are you talking about?

lets take a 99 SL vs 99 Saab
Leather seats? I had the sports pack in my saab and the seats were _better_ than my SL (I had the electric heated seats as well, not that you need them as you adjust the car once and then leave it alone for 3 years)
Electric windows/hood? Saab had both of those. (It also had a proper heated glass window that didn't smear and crack...)
wooden dashboard ? that too
Heavy build quality? Not too heavy but it felt good.
Climate control? Yes. (The Saabs heaters worked as well )
Speed (yes if you really needed it you could have the 205 HOT) but both cars are smooth cruisers, although the Saab wont top 150mph...
Hardtop ? No Saab designed the car to keep the heat in and the wind out so you did not need to put a hardtop on for most of the year...

Image? Thats a hard question to answer. Saabs are non descript Although I had lots of people comment that they liked mine.

What does owning an SL say about the driver? I have arived? not really if you have done that, then you would be in an R230 instead.

Kudos at the golf club for owning a badge? Not really as the sort of people that think like that, would drop the points for it not being the current model (and its still too young to be a classic)

I don't see where the SL is winning yet, and thats probably why mines on a forecourt waiting for its next owner...

If I wanted a weekend car that was for light use, I would rather find a car that was more fun to drive.

 

[glojo]

What a very informative thread about a fantastic model. Lots of reading in the link.

Thanks,
John

 

[230K]

Hi

Going to look at a 94 SL500 141K at £7500 later in the week. I do most of my repairs have a 2 post ramp etc is it mostly electrical problems that these cars suffer from if so these can be costly, i would feel confident enough with the mechanical end of things.



Peter you have had some bad luck hope they are not all like that.

Is 15-20mpg a reasonable estimate for fuel economy.

Also at what year did CAT's become compulsery, have looked at a no cat and a de-cat version.


Thanks to all so far

230K

 

[Fais]

don't be too put off by peterchurch's coments - just take it as a different view point

i can get 20mpg (town driving) from my SL320 - 15-20 is a very good estimate.

Yep, if you can cover the mechanics, the electrics is your only concern. May sure the vacuum function on the glove box, storage boxes works (locks them when the car locks). To give you an idea - roof top module, which i had to replaced at the dealer cost £1k (inc 1hr labour) - one of the most expensive electrical components, but still something you can afford to take into account from the outset.

 

[peterchurch]

Hi

Going to look at a 94 SL500 141K at £7500 later in the week. I do most of my repairs have a 2 post ramp etc is it mostly electrical problems that these cars suffer from if so these can be costly, i would feel confident enough with the mechanical end of things.



Peter you have had some bad luck hope they are not all like that.

Is 15-20mpg a reasonable estimate for fuel economy.

Also at what year did CAT's become compulsery, have looked at a no cat and a de-cat version.


Thanks to all so far

230K

Cheers Its not that the cars are bad they are just not as inspiring as some claim (even when running perfect). I would not say that my car was a lemon either it always ran perfectly, although I did have a cat issue that lasted several months due to a supplier switching the parts on me (Im taking legal advise on them at the moment) That only amounted to a small rattle at 2000 rpm and you had to turn your stereo off to hear it anyway. Everything else ran as clockwork.

If you want to understand what I mean by uninspiring take a test drive in a 2002 MR2 after you have looked at the car you are viewing they are totaly different cars but the MR2 had something the SL never will

Good luck

 

[mikeouk]

If you want to understand what I mean by uninspiring take a test drive in a 2002 MR2 after you have looked at the car you are viewing they are totaly different cars but the MR2 had something the SL never will

Good luck

Im not getting your logic at all peter!!!! 230k asked what was the better 90's r129,,300sl or 500sl ???

What relevance does a 2002 mr2 ,a Saab 93SE , a 911 or god forbid a meganne have to his original question??

If you went into a restaurant and asked the waiter which wine he recommended and he started telling you to forget the wine because he'd had a bad bottle once but he'd had a cracking pint of Guinness the other week ,,you'd think he'd lost the plot :bannana:


IMHO,, like most things in life, every car fits a purpose. If someone wants a value for money, quality, open top tourer for weekend/occasional use, pound for pound a r129 can’t be beaten. It’s just down to buying the right one in the 1st place to minimise the risk of future major expenditure.