2002 w211 E320cdi cold gearbox problem

[GSI-jim]

On first start up in morning i happens at lightish throttle for the first few back roads i go down then its fine after that. Changes into 2nd fine but then its like it changes into 3rd well too early & the car pulls a bit. And the gear change (if it is changing) changes really fast & not a slight delay like normal. Its really annoying. Ive been looking around on the interent & would the torque converter lock up switch cause this?

ive changed the gearbox oil & filter & plug adaptor. & reset adaptions.

 

[BlackC55]

Is the level ok when hot?

 

[GSI-jim]

Yes level is right near the 80degree max mark with transmission at 80degrees.

 

[BlackC55]

Any fault codes?

 

[GSI-jim]

Had the car since new year & never been any codes until the other day & its always had the problem. Will post them in a minute

 

[GSI-jim]

 

[BlackC55]

That wont be anything to worry about. Occasional CAN errors do come up.

You box might just be tired or have a lack of pressure when cold. Lack of pressure is usually down to old seals inside the gearbox. I would get it diagnosed by a gearbox specialist or independent. I expect that the gearbox will have to be removed, stripped and inspected to see what is wrong.

I cant be 100% sure as I am not with the car or experienced the fault myself.

 

[Alex Argent]

Hi Jim

What's the mileage?

Have you noticed your rev counter fluctuating slightly when the problem occurs?

The reason I ask is that I have a late 2005 E320 (I6) with the same 5 speed box, and I have had exactly the same symptoms as you for around the past 2-3 years (started with approximately 90k miles on the clock) .

Only seems to occur when cold, changing up too quickly/aggressively, mainly only on a light throttle - as if it's hunting. If I 'gun' it from cold on a fast road it is very unnoticeable and after a few miles and/or when it reaches full temperature, it's as smooth as silk

I have had three fluid changes during this period - the first by MB dealer which I asked them to do on a service visit (ironically it was following this when the issue first became apparent - so it went in a second time at which time they replaced the ATF again, and I was told they also updated the software on this second visit). This still didn't make any difference so it went in a third time for investigation when they stated the torque converter was shot (and quoted approx. £2500 to replace)

The ATF/filter/gasket was then changed again around 6 months ago and new bush fitted by an excellent local MB independent specialist I have been using since the debacle with MB.

He also carried out a STAR diagnosis which threw up no transmission fault codes at all.....although there were a few stored codes for other minor issues which were fully explained to me and of no consequence to the box problem.

Alas, that ATF change also made no difference to the problem.

The bottom line is that I have lived with this problem since it first started, and have put around 15k-20k miles on the car since then. It doesn't appear to have got any worse, although despite the ATF changes has certainly not improved.

I also have trailed through many web pages - here and on other specialist sites, and I'm still not convinced it is the torque converter. These are very complex boxes and it could be one of many other causes......electric plate in box has several solenoids that are potentially likely to fail, software issue, etc.

Plus what Olly says above - could be a seal failed somewhere (the solenoids obviously act as seals also). I agree with Olly - and I should be doing the same - get the car into an auto box specialist for investigation. A dealer will probably just say it's either the tranny or TC gone, or both . Removing and stripping a box down is an onerous and time-consuming task, and paying £100+ per hour to a dealer can clearly start racking up significant costs even before a problem can be correctly diagnosed, hence they tend to fob us off with "sorry sir, I'm afraid you require a new...................wallet"

I hope this may be of some help. Let us know how things progress.

Alex

 

[GSI-jim]

Bought it with 115000miles now on 119000 miles.i do the work myself as im a mechanic but not clued up on auto boxes. Mine sounds the same as yours, bit more throttle from cold & its fine or if the outside temp is a bit warmer its fine & only occurs for the first 1/2 a mile at most.

only ever happens from 2nd to 3rd aswell. Does yours?

 

[Alex Argent]

Hi Jim

I can't say I have only noticed it in 2nd and 3rd. The initial shift from 1 to 2 is sometimes extremely jerky, then it seems to shift up very quickly - sometimes going into 4th or top at around 30mph (around 1100rpm in top).

There's a guy in the U.S. called Kent of Mercedessource, who has posted a lot of videos on youtube about transmission problems. Plus hundreds of others you can access from his website (or using youtube's own search engine). IMHO, he is brilliant and the videos are extremely informative. Try not falling asleep after the first hour or so though!!

The following link is for part 1 of 6 videos on the 722.6 transmission. The various work he refers to in these can be done with the box in-situ, however there are others that show how to remove it completely if that is required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bdt4g5jqo4E

The absolute priority should you decide to go down this road (i.e. doing it yourself) is to ensure everything is kept squeaky clean during the dismantling and re-assembly procedures, and mark everything up as you remove the various components.

And you'll obviously require a hydraulic ramp or a pit - might be difficult with the latter though unless it's big enough to set up a bench in a clean area down there.

Good luck, and let's know how you get on. Regrettably I haven't got the time, the inclination or the equipment to do anything like this myself.

Regards,

Alex

 

[sallison1504]

Do these boxes have a sport mode or manual mode? If so, try this until it's warmed up a bit. A common scenario with older auto trannys. Just the same as a manual car with a slippy clutch when cold, just takes time to warm up

 

[GSI-jim]

Ah mine only does it 2nd into 3rd, all other gears are fine. I might just put up with it unless someone comes up with a solution ecause it could get costly just keep trying different components.
Just annoying tho especially with someone else in the car.

ive got all the tools & a ramp so can give anything a go.

 

[Alex Argent]

Do these boxes have a sport mode or manual mode? If so, try this until it's warmed up a bit. A common scenario with older auto trannys. Just the same as a manual car with a slippy clutch when cold, just takes time to warm up

These boxes have a 'Standard' (S) and 'Comfort' (C) mode but they also have 'Tiptronic' - effectively a manual way of shifting down and holding in the lowest gear possible. Standard mode uses all gears, Winter mode pulls away in 2nd gear and the transmission ECU changes up at lower revs......hence the 'Comfort' terminology. I think on older MB boxes the C setting was a W (Winter) mode.

I have tried all override gearbox settings, alas the issue will not go away .

 

[Alex Argent]

Jim

I have just thought of another potential issue (hopefully not scaremongering you though. Some pre-2005 W211's were fitted with a Valeo radiator which could potentially cause issues with coolant ending up in the transmission!

There are several links concerning this on these pages - just type in valeo in the search window and that should bring them up. There is a simple test that be carried out by taking a small sample of AT Fluid and checking for presence of glycol (from the anti-freeze). In any case, it may be worth just doing an ATF change to see if that helps. Despite MB stating originally that these boxes were 'sealed-for-life', they have now done a 180 'U' turn on later models.

There is also a method of how to reset the ECU memory to default from the adaptive driving styles it learns as the mileage increases. There's something on here about it, or 'Mr USA Kent' has a video of how to do it if you search on his site or youtube. Or, I'm told that disconnecting the battery for about half an hour erases the ECU's memory, however I cannot vouch if this works.

Have a good weekend :bannana:.

Alex

 

[GSI-jim]

Thanks for your tips. When i got the car i fitted a seperate cooler & changed & flushed the fluid, filter & adaptor plug. Ive reset adaptions with a snap on scanner several times but still does it.